Jestersix

Over feeding?

I have a Bangaii Cardinal, a Two Spotted Blenny and a Yellow Watchman Goby. I typically feed once a day about a 1/8 of a frozen cube of either brine, mysis or bloodworms in addition to a tiny pinch of flake (2-4 large flakes crushed) or pellets (< 8).

I have been dealing with higher than ideal nitrates (10-20) and it doesn't seem like the pick off every last drop of food so am I over feeding? What adjusts would people recommend?
 
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A hungry fish is an angry fish in a weakened state. Feed the fish 4-6 times each day, in small amounts. A fish's stomach is about the size of 1 of their eyeballs. Nitrates...water changes and refugium
 
Maybe beef up your clean up crew a bit? That's how I help keep things under control with frequent feedings in a smaller tank. I've got plenty of hermits to grab any uneaten food, so it isn't just rotting on the sand. Granted, hermits can be a pain, but there are other options like small serpent stars. I have a couple small serpent stars in my seahorse tank and they're amazing at picking up uneaten food. Also they're fun to watch.
 
Do you thaw out and clean the fluids from your frozen cubes? I think it was Anthony Calfo who called the stuff that it's packed with (basically their food source) as "rocket fuel for algae"
 
Felicia, yeah I have 3-5 snails, a pistol shrimp, and 3 hermit crabs which I think should be enough no?

Kensington, sorry I don't think I'm following. My question is if I feed once (twice max) per day what is the right amount for the fishes I have? I realize smaller amounts more often is ideal but unrealistic for me.

As for your nitrate comment I also don't follow. I understand the role of a refugium and water changes to export nutrients.

So it sounds to me like the amount isn't absurd just maybe figuring out a way to beef up filtration/nutrient export a bit.
 
Unfortunately my Bangaii is a picky eater and has only taken to eating frozen food. Otherwise I'd absolutely setup my auto feeder.
 
Unfortunately my Bangaii is a picky eater and has only taken to eating frozen food. Otherwise I'd absolutely setup my auto feeder.
MINE TOO! What's up with that?! He only eats mysis shrimp or live copepods. The little brat went through a full bottle of Reef Nutrition pods before I started defrosting mysis for him. That bottle of Reef Nutrition pods cost more than he did!
 
This is how I interpret the 'small stomach, feed often' issue.

In the wild fish eat all the time. They haven't developed the ability to eat large amounts at once like lions or wolves. One gut load might not be enough to keep the fish in best health or disposition.

Since the fish can only eat so much at one feeding, it's best to feed less than the max, but feed it several times per day. It's almost impossible to completely duplicate their natural habit, but one feeding/day is way different than the natural process.

Use your auto feeder. Find food most of your fish will eat and use that. For the picky fish, feed them as many times/day as you can with the food they will eat. No need to make the other fish suffer just because one is picky.

Over time the picky eaters might get the hint and start eating with the others. They might also fail to thrive and need to be removed.

+1 to the Cleaner Shrimp comment. Not only do they do a great job of finding and eating the missed food bits, but my non-reefkeeping friends are always drawn to them.
 
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Do you thaw out and clean the fluids from your frozen cubes? I think it was Anthony Calfo who called the stuff that it's packed with (basically their food source) as "rocket fuel for algae"

You listen to Calfo? He suggests a pH above 8.5 as a low and tank temps around 85f.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Aquarium Chemistry: Phosphate And Math: Yes You Need To Understand Both
By Randy Holmes-Farley, Ph.D.

Rinsing Foods and the Effect on Phosphate
Now that we have some information on the phosphate in foods, we can critically examine the concern that many aquarists have about foods, and specifically their rinsing of frozen foods before use. A typical test you see is someone taking a cube of fish food, thawing it, and putting it into a half cup of water. They then test that water for phosphate and find it "off the charts". Let's assume that means 1 ppm phosphate, which would give a very dark blue color in many phosphate tests. Bear in mind this is a thought problem, not an actual measured value, but it is typical of what people think the answer is.

Is that a lot of phosphate? Well, there are two ways to think of the answer.

The first way is as a portion of the total phosphate in that food. A half cup of water at 1 ppm (1 mg/L) phosphate contains a total of 0.12 mg of phosphate. A cube of Formula 2 contains about 11.2 mg of phosphate. So the hypothetical rinsing step has removed about 1 percent of the phosphate in that food. Not really worthwhile, in my opinion, but that decision is one every aquarist can make for themselves.

The second way to look at this rinsing is with respect to how much it reduces the boost to the aquarium phosphate concentration. Using the same calculation as above of 0.12 mg of phosphate, and adding that to 100 gallons total water volume, we find that phosphate that was rinsed away would have boosted the "in tank" phosphate concentration by 0.12 mg/379 L = 0.0003 ppm. That amount washed away does not seem significant with respect to the "in tank" target level of about 50-100 times that level (say, 0.015 to 0.03 ppm), nor does it seem significant relative to the total amount of phosphate actually added each day in foods (which is perhaps 50-1000 times as much, based on input rates from Table 4. Again, the conclusion I make is that rinsing is not really worthwhile, in my opinion.
 
You listen to Calfo? He suggests a pH above 8.5 as a low and tank temps around 85f.

Not to hijack, but yes, I listen to Calfo. I listen to him the same way I listen to all the speakers I've seen and books I've read, with a grain of salt. You can't take one person's word on everything. I saw Steve Tyree a few weeks ago, and he said he didn't think you get much growth with sps under leds. I have quite a few friends that can prove him wrong. ;)
 
Thanks for relinking to that phosphate article. It's great.

Every time I hear/read someone talking about rinsing I think about that article.

John --
skeptic in training...
 
The bottom of my tank looks horrible from the fish poop. I thought I was feeding too much, but I think I'm just feeding incorrectly. I use the one giant feeding after human dinner method. I will set up my eheim to drop some flakes for in-between giant meal.

V
 
Thanks for relinking to that phosphate article. It's great.

Every time I hear/read someone talking about rinsing I think about that article.
Do note that he doesn't say that rinsing is bad, just that he doesn't think it has any effect. Which I'm hesitant to lean towards either

Now unless I'm reading this wrong and doing the math wrong in my head... and that's a distinct possibility as I grade some of my students papers.... *pulls out hair*
That amount washed away does not seem significant with respect to the "in tank" target level of about 50-100 times that level

Now lets say you feed 2 of these cubes a day x 30 days, that's 60 times the original value of a single cube which does put it on target with tank levels. So over time it could become quite significant unless you have some level of export.

That being said, I was never specifically saying frozen foods add phosphates, simply the concentration of food that the mysis eats, after peeling back the layers will have the food that all that undesirably algae likes to eat.
 
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