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Scuba Attack on Hawaiian Reef

It's really disappointing to hear that illicit livestock trade is active in the US.

Hawaii Scuba Attack


It is critical that we hobbyists pay attention to where our livestock is sourced and the chain of custody in it's collection.
 
Mike, I'm not sure that was an illegal collection. The woman attacked was part of a group trying to get all collection banned in HI.

I'm not saying the 'attack' diver was doing a good thing either.

Like with all news we never know where the 'TRUTH' is. :(
 
....
But I do understand the aggression. Only the very clue-less would expect no reaction while interfering with someone's legal and permitted income/livelihood.

Disagree.
Protests are part of our culture.
Those fishermen knew they were doing something not everybody likes, and thus targets of protest.
And from those articles, it seems they knew something was up that day.
As such, they should have a plan for how to deal with protesters.
Aggression against protesters is the worst possible way to respond.
It gets you in trouble, escalates the problem, and helps their cause.

I can understand the fishermen being really pissed of course.
But the response - nope - not a lot of excuse there.
 
I agree with Mark. Everything is heresay also that's not on the videos.

All we see is the footage from two angles, as the aggression is taking place. Anything else before is simply one word against another's.

Regardless, ripping a mask out is not the proper response, and I do think he should be charged with a serious violation if not a felony.
 
No mask was ripped out.

As a DM that dealt with a ton of open water & advanced classes, I can say other divers have knocked my reg out more times then I can count (I shoulda had them brought up on assault charges?). I've done it to myself and had seals do it to me when spearfishing. One of the basic skills one must learn is reg recovery. Its never more than an arm sweep away... and typically you have a secondary reg attached to your BC right in front (easy to grab). Her life was never in danger.
 
It's really disappointing to hear that illicit livestock trade is active in the US.
Hawaii Scuba Attack

It is critical that we hobbyists pay attention to where our livestock is sourced and the chain of custody in it's collection.

It very much so is in every country, but this is not a case of that what so ever. This is akin to Watson "getting shot".
 
"attempted murder" is a bit extreme, every diver has a regulator and an octopus, basically by default if you are in the water with scuba gear you already know real well how to use your octopus, meaning your regulator would physically have to come off so you can switch. Therefore knocking the regulator out of someone's mouth is no where even slightly the same as trying to kill them, attempted murder would be slicing another diver's hose at 5o bellow, not this.

By no means at all do I think this kind of behavior is justifiable but at end of the day I wouldn't agree that a man has to be tried for attempted murder when the victim's life was not in any real danger. If this goes to court I really hope both sides are punished for their carelessness, and a 3rd party professional is consulted about what a licensed diver is and isn't able to handle underwater, like replacing their regulator...

As stated above, any diver with any experience can tell you that losing a regulator is something that happens accidentally quite often and not a big deal when it does.
 
This is what happens when aggressive actions are met with aggressive reactions....Sea Shepard are known for they're extreme eco-terrorist tactics...I'm sure they weren't just "observing". Something must have provoked such an attack. I'm not saying it makes it right, only justifiable. However, there's no doubt on this attack...it's pretty clear his actions were of some malicious intent and deserves to be prosecuted. But if this incident should tarnish the reputation of hobby-based collection on the reefs, then the same should be done for organizations against it, such as the sea shepard. Radical groups like this should not be allowed to take the law into their own hands and put others in danger...I'd consider it quite a double standard. Guys like Paul Watson are ego-maniacal narcissists.
 
No mask was ripped out.

As a DM that dealt with a ton of open water & advanced classes, I can say other divers have knocked my reg out more times then I can count (I shoulda had them brought up on assault charges?). I've done it to myself and had seals do it to me when spearfishing. One of the basic skills one must learn is reg recovery. Its never more than an arm sweep away... and typically you have a secondary reg attached to your BC right in front (easy to grab). Her life was never in danger.

Sorry, I meant regulator. I have a beginner's dive license so I do recognize the skills taught and tested for a beginner. But I was also taught that things can get dangerous very quickly. I feel that although she was never in any danger, things could have gone wrong real fast. What if the aggressor's action caused more than what he intended?

I may have jumped too far in saying he should be held for attempted murder, but his actions were deliberate and could have had more serious consequences.


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You ask for just as much trouble if you're out there 'protesting' a cause by videotaping 50 feet deep. If she wasn't there in the first place, her life wouldn't have been 'at risk.'

Who's to say that there weren't five other Sea Shepherd divers right behind Rene Umberger? If you had six grouped divers with one of them video taping, wouldn't you be concerned for your safety for not knowing their intent? It's not like you can talk to them about it underwater... or can you?
 
If there's one think I have learned about Sea Shepard over the years is that their media interviews are consistently unbalanced, manipulative and never tell anything remotely close to the whole truth. Apparently when it's "for the animals" is OK to be a sleazeball. Like with PETA I find myself unable to agree with Sea Shepard on anything even when we hold the same position.

I apologize for not knowing she was associated with Sea Shepard and am disappointed that CBC didn't reveal that affiliation.
 
This might relate to the situation here;

"Fight or Flight" is a very bizarre thing sometimes, many many years ago myself & a girl (an ex now) were at a parking lot outside my work joking around and laughing while a police officer from a distance thought he was witnessing a domestic dispute of some sort so he runs over, pulls his pistol and all I hear is "freeeeze police" so I look over and I'm blinded by his flashlight, my instant reaction was to throw my hands up & scream at him "WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT" not realizing that as well as a flashlight he had his glock drawn and aimed right at my face. I stopped when I realized it was an officer (still angry though) I asked if he'd thought to announce his descend upon us and why he had his gun in my face so quickly before bothering to investigate what was going on? how he'd missed the loud laughter etc. a while later when I calmed down I walked over to his cruiser and apologized for yelling at him, explained that I didn't realize he was an officer & immediately felt threatened, I said I appreciated his service as he was simply doing his job. Had it not been a police officer I'd probably punched him, kinda similar in a sense...
 
People use the label "terrorist" rather lightly these days.
Is Sea Shepherd radical and extreme ... sure. Striking terror ... killing ... not so much.
And on most of the stunts, they put themselves in danger, not others.

The real problem:
These protesters are normally up against giant corporations or governments.
Both sides in that game are skilled, and tend to get a bit extreme or ruthless at times.
It is not really fair against a couple of small-time independent fishermen.

---

Personally, I have rather mixed feelings on the protest itself.
This particular protest seems overkill, since the aquarium collection in Hawaii seems under control.
But without people like this that really care, the odds are it would still be out of control, with few fish left.
 
Personally, I have rather mixed feelings on the protest itself.
This particular protest seems overkill, since the aquarium collection in Hawaii seems under control.
But without people like this that really care, the odds are it would still be out of control, with few fish left.

I think you have a rather odd outlook as Rene doesn't care if they are sustainably harvested or not... she only cares if there are NO PET FISH, especially ones from Hawaii.. despite all science pointing to it being a sustainable trade. She and Robert W. believe there should be no aquariums.

There are a lot of industry members that care, as well as the government itself (of Hawaii) regarding this issue. Rene and Robert have nothing to do with that aspect. I happen to be one of those that care and has been involved in the issue for many years.
 
<Personally, I have rather mixed feelings on the protest itself.
This particular protest seems overkill, since the aquarium collection in Hawaii seems under control.
But without people like this that really care, the odds are it would still be out of control, with few fish left.>

I think you have a rather odd outlook as Rene doesn't care if they are sustainably harvested or not... she only cares if there are NO PET FISH, especially ones from Hawaii.. despite all science pointing to it being a sustainable trade. She and Robert W. believe there should be no aquariums.

There are a lot of industry members that care, as well as the government itself (of Hawaii) regarding this issue. Rene and Robert have nothing to do with that aspect. I happen to be one of those that care and has been involved in the issue for many years.

In a lot of environmental protests, you have:
1) Ruthless corporations/governments damaging the environment.
2) The centrists, who care, and want to come to a reasonable solution.
3) The radicals, against everything.
I really feel that very often, without the radicals, the centrists will largely be ignored until it is too late.

Hence the mixed feelings.

That said, I don't really know for sure in this specific case of course. I am not involved enough,
and all the news seems very biased one way or another.
 
I'd hardly call it an attack. Zero harm, and unless she is entirely clueless after being an avid (read: basically a commercial diver) diver for 30+ years, she was in no danger.

I've had friends shut my air off and do all kinds of stuff, never once did I accuse them of either assaulting or attacking me.

Your reg is ALWAYS within an arms sweep.
 
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