High Tide Aquatics

Sump Vs. Refugium

ReeferGirl

ReeferGirl

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Hi All- looking for some of your opinions on the need for a sump or refugium-

Is a sump even necessary? If so, is it truly necessary to get a 30 or 40 gallon sump (for 60 gal tank) or will a backpack refugium work the same?

difference between the two?

Thanks!
 
if i'm not mistaken the purpose for a sump ...other than adding more volume of water to your system (the more water the more stable parameters should keep) you can put skimmer,heaters,and all the stuff you don't want in plain view of you display tank, plus the added oxygen exchage thru overflows. as far as refugium...you can have deep sand bed, macroalgae, mud (eco mud) and these help keep your nitrates down as a more biological filtering system.

i personally have a combo sump/refugium set up and i love it.
 
i could do both, but i just didnt know each ones purpose and if it was something that i really should have for my tanks. i do like the idea or having a big sump for all the equipment to run through it, and more stable water parameters sounds like a great idea to me. thanks!

Phong are you going to the swap? id love to meet you. and i loooove your clownfish! hes so cute.
 
Here is a simple sump/fuge .. I like to keep thing simple. You will see a lot of complicated sump/fuge out there but I don't really know why people like to complicate thing ;D ..
sumpfuge.jpg


Yeah I will be at the swap.. I will be one of the staff member. Ask for Phong/Elite, most of the staff members know who I am (i think :D) ..

I love clown fish. I wish she will lay eggs soon so I can try breeding 8) ..
 
thanks for the diagram, makes total sense. i dont want a complicated one, because my knowledge of the equipment and all the functions is not that great! the less complicated, the better, in my opinion. :) thanks for your help. ill come find you at the Swap. my name is Kelly :)

i need to get another black clown, and try and breed them! ill give you some if i ever get it to work!
 
I like to have as big of a sump that will fit. I going to do a fuge chamber in my sump on my new tank. More or less the way Phongs diagram looks.
 
Just a thought but, one thing to ask is the fuge just for added natural filtration or do you want to grow pods in there as well. My sump/fuge is no more complacated however it doesn't have the flow that the one phong drew so it has a bonus feature of more likely pod repoduction
 
I'll chime in here.
The job of a sump is obvious: more water volume=more stable water and space for skimmer, filters, chemical additives, heater

The job of a fuge is three fold:
#1 reversing the toxins produced by fish (nitrates and CO2 become oxygen)
#2 Fighting diatom and hai algae for resources (Lowering amount of algae in tank)
#3 Providing a place to raise pods and other invertebrates for tank inhabitants

My rule of thumb is the same as anyone else: make both as big as possible.

BTW, not to argue with Phong, but that is NOT the simplest design. Sorry buddy, I have to call it like I see it. I had a fuge sump that was nothing more than a tank with one baffle. On one side was my fuge, on the other was my sump. You'll hear many differing opinions on where the skimmer should be in relation to the sump. The debate is do you want skimming before the fuge to minimize waste in the fuge OR are you worried that the skimmer will remove pods from the water after the fuge. In my opinion here are the truths;
1. You want the water to turn over in your fuge ~2-4 times an hour. More flow = less filtering/more pods
2. Waste in a fuge can be handled by adding one serpent star.
3. Skimmers don't kill off significant amounts of pods
4. The only reason for baffles is to control bubbles and water height
With that in mind a simple single divider can be used if you split the outlet from you tank and limit the flow to the fuge and house a serpent star in there. Bubbles can be eliminated with a good amount of live rock filtering before the return pump. I hope this helps.

I'll also be at the swap to contradict my worthy and knowledgeable friend, Phong. :D
 
[quote author=Dyngoe link=topic=4255.msg51476#msg51476 date=1218204451]
I'll chime in here.
The job of a sump is obvious: more water volume=more stable water and space for skimmer, filters, chemical additives, heater

The job of a fuge is three fold:
#1 reversing the toxins produced by fish (nitrates and CO2 become oxygen)
#2 Fighting diatom and hai algae for resources (Lowering amount of algae in tank)
#3 Providing a place to raise pods and other invertebrates for tank inhabitants

My rule of thumb is the same as anyone else: make both as big as possible.

BTW, not to argue with Phong, but that is NOT the simplest design. Sorry buddy, I have to call it like I see it. I had a fuge sump that was nothing more than a tank with one baffle. On one side was my fuge, on the other was my sump. You'll hear many differing opinions on where the skimmer should be in relation to the sump. The debate is do you want skimming before the fuge to minimize waste in the fuge OR are you worried that the skimmer will remove pods from the water after the fuge. In my opinion here are the truths;
1. You want the water to turn over in your fuge ~2-4 times an hour. More flow = less filtering/more pods
2. Waste in a fuge can be handled by adding one serpent star.
3. Skimmers don't kill off significant amounts of pods
4. The only reason for baffles is to control bubbles and water height
With that in mind a simple single divider can be used if you split the outlet from you tank and limit the flow to the fuge and house a serpent star in there. Bubbles can be eliminated with a good amount of live rock filtering before the return pump. I hope this helps.

I'll also be at the swap to contradict my worthy and knowledgeable friend, Phong. :D
[/quote]

;D Can you do a little drawing of your setup so I can see?
Yes the baffles are there to stop the micro bubbles. I had two section sump/fuge before too. I didn't like that because sometimes macroalgae got suck into the return pump. Oh I like to have a skimmer in front of the fuge because I like to remove most of the junks before they enter into the fuge.
 
Speaking of sump/fuge tank. I think of you guys have checked out the grand price, the sump by tru-vu, from the swap yesterday. there is a section next to the return pump, what is it for? .....too small to use to quarantine fish/corals. backup top-off? hee hee hee if it is, then I hope they file a patent for it :D
 
LOL Andy, we were talking about that thing for a long time before everyone came. It can be use to store RO water for topoff, QT tank for you new coral or dry food for your fish ;D .. I'm pretty sure they make it for auto topoff but I agree with other that it's too small for that sump.
 
Great diagram, Phong. If possible, I do recommend using an external pump whenever possible though. It helps cutting down on adding heat to your water unecessarily. It's always easier and cheaper to add heat then to remove it.

[quote author=Elite link=topic=4255.msg51144#msg51144 date=1217994265]
Here is a simple sump/fuge .. I like to keep thing simple. You will see a lot of complicated sump/fuge out there but I don't really know why people like to complicate thing ;D ..
sumpfuge.jpg


Yeah I will be at the swap.. I will be one of the staff member. Ask for Phong/Elite, most of the staff members know who I am (i think :D) ..

I love clown fish. I wish she will lay eggs soon so I can try breeding 8) ..

[/quote]
 
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