105 G Star fire- new tank

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by ReefLove, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    Hi Everyone,

    Let me start by introducing myself by saying I have ZERO experience in fish salt or fresh. I got 10 gallon freshwater tank about 1 month back and fishes are still alive. Which means I know what I'm doing :) sort of. But I have been reading for about 5 months non stop 40-50 hours a week sometime even more.

    I have 2 and half years old daughter and want to have a mature aquarium when she starts understanding what oxygen is in next few years. No need to mention she loves Nemo and daddy loves Nemo too.

    Now, I want to buy 100+ gallon tank for few reasons, one is that I don't want to overcrowd my tank and start by having kind of open look and grow with tank considering I have no experience. Second is that more water more forgiveness in terms of params and more time to react. Third is that most of the equipments cost the same or almost same like skimmer for 60G will be $250 and for for 110G about $300 so why not give myself a decent chance by having a bigger tank, I have thought few more reasons but can't remember because I am really upset after getting the quote. :)

    Also, LFS was very helpful so I'm not complaining in any way, just making sure I'm making correct decision.
    Without disclosing identity of the shop I'm going to ask for your opinion and help configure this thing.

    105G star fire rim less tank
    48½ x 24½ x 21
    Decent Stand no canopy
    2 - ehiem compact 5000 - do I need this exact pumps , they seem over kill?
    1- R-300 refugium - do I need this exact one? it worth $350??
    1 - SSA ES2 Skimmer -- is it good or something else is enough ? $450
    3 - Kessil A350 - market rate - enough lighting ?
    1 - Tunz osmolator universal
    2- Vortech MP40 W ES
    1 - controller
    Not sure about call reactor considering not going to have much to begin with so will add later if needed.

    God speed.

    And thank you in advance for your help.

    No need to mention that I have approval from my wife or I would not dare getting a quote :) lol..I was easy.
     
  2. JAR

    JAR Supporting Member

    Everyone will have their own opinions (some stronger than others). I think that is a fine way to get going and yes you kinda need the stuff in question :)
     
  3. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    JAR - I know I need them :D but do I need the same one ? There are so many choices in skimmer and sump.
     
  4. sfboarders

    sfboarders Guest

    2 Eheim compact 5000? for what? returns? What dimension tank are you going with? Are you planning to go with all new? You can find a lot of good used stuff which will save you a lot of money.
     
  5. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    One kessil a350 will not likely light up a tank that size...depends on dimensions. You could save money on the sump by buying a used acrylic tank and using it. Could probably spend a bit less on a skimmer. Look at super reef octopuss. Could get by with one return pump, having two is nice. Could save a little by getting one mp60 instead if two mp40s. Again depends a little on dimensions and what types of corals you will keep and your aquascaping etc...
     
  6. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    Dimension is - 48½ x 24½ x 21..

    Buying 3 kessils.
     
  7. sfboarders

    sfboarders Guest

    For a 4ft tank you can get away with 2 a350w's. I have a custom Kritter sump/fuge and a Eheim 1262 that I'm selling which will work on your tank. I used it for my 100 gallon. I agree with Mike on the SRO skimmers. Might wanna check them out.
     
  8. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    I' so confused. I don't want to make any mistakes and then spend more later. But I don't know right from wrong.

    But I will let you know once I decide which tank I'm buying. The tank I looked had a center inside overflow which creates two columns on right and left and distrusts the flow from what I can tell so I have to decide on a tank first.
     
  9. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

    happy new year and thank you for splurging the membership dues!!

    This hobby ain't cheap! You will end up buying things you need and think you need at that moment. As much as your reef system is a constant dynamic, and technology is constantly changing, you will inevitably have extra parts laying around.

    The only guarantee in this hobby is death!
    If you are successful, things will grow before they die.
     
  10. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    Thanks. Good way to look at at that way. Everything dies one day so it's ok. Even best of BMWs breakdown. Marriages breakdown and it goes like that. But it's all about the Journey not the destination :)

    That's the thing, It's not a good thing for the hobby that things are so damn expensive, I can afford but I know so many people who would have a tank if its not so expensive. It's crazy, it's just rip-off.

    I think Death will be for this hobby itself. So many threads I see people selling their stuff and getting out of hobby.
     
  11. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    Many people jumped in when times were good and now they don't have as much expandable cash, they cannot afford this luxury hobby.

    You talk as if aquarium companies can afford to cut prices, its just not true. We just did our first price hike in 8 years, and honestly, we should have doubled the price hike as that is how much costs have gone up.

    While a product might cost double or even triple what the wholesale cost is, there is quite a bit of overhead that accompanies it, especially here in the Bay Area. There is a reason we've lost so many stores in the last 5 years.

    FWIW most bread and butter livestock prices have barely moved in 20-30 years. They all should be triple to quadruple what they are.
     
  12. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Hi Nish,

    You are off to a good start by asking questions, research, and most importantly getting the spouse okay. :D The tank size you've chosen is a good size and will afford you a little more leeway than a nano would. As Jar eluded too, folks will have varying opinions (and some more than others). ;) The SRO skimmers are a good choice, although you might want to checkout the RSLL skimmers with controllable DC motors. Vortech or Tunze pumps are solid power heads. A single eheim 1262 return pump should be sufficient for your tank size. The one John is selling is a good price and I can vouch that he keeps good care of his equipment. If you are going the European method of letting your tank sit for 3 months without lights and only circulation and heater, I think you will find a lot of benefits from doing so. We have a tour scheduled of the Kessil facility come June and there might be a special club price if you can wait.

    Looking forward to the build.
     
  13. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    Thanks Jim.

    As I'm already late for the Christmas time purchase. I can wait few more months but we will see. :)
     
  14. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Build your own LEDs? Meeting in jan will show you how...
     
  15. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    I was gonna attend. But I'm traveling that weekend. :(
     
  16. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    Baymac- do you own a store or something ?

    By no means I'm socialist or I'm against making money, the whole reason I get out of the bed in the morning is to make money. ;) that said all I'm saying is that if it would have been little cheaper then hobby will grow faster. Some one is making crazy money, if not retailers then suppliers or manufacturers. There are lots of ways to cut costs too, I would rather talk to the manufacturers if get a chance and give them few tips.

    To prove my point that this crazy prices is killing the hobby..check out when a large build happened on BAR(http://www.bareefers.org/home/node/14607) it was back in May this year that is 7 months back, no wonder so many stores are closed, But if prices are 50% cheaper then lot more people will buy new tanks or people who own small will buy large one or will buy another tank. But as I said I have been wrong before and may be I'm just dead wrong this time too but at least it's worth thinking ways to improve market and spread the hobby.
     
  17. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    If it too expensive maybe you should rethink it? Complaining about prices won't get you anywhere. There are ways to save money such as DIY or koralia powerheads over mp40s. Just decide what you want and spend the cash or not. If this is your new passion it's worth the cash and you won't regret it, if its not then you really shouldn't spend anything on it and save for another hobby.
     
  18. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Glad to know you admit that you have zero experience with fish yet you know what you're doing ;) Freshwater often is extremely easier than saltwater for the simple fact you use the water that comes out of the tap (with some de-chlorinator type products of course), of course Freshwater can get much more complicated than saltwater too depending upon what you do in either realm. That said I had a similar experience where I've had freshwater before, and being told by the local fish store owner that saltwater was way more work (and it is based upon what I was doing in freshwater, i.e. just fish with gravel and a bubble filter it was more work) I decided to see how hard it would be, so I had an empty 10g tank, bought some sand, a fake plastic rock, and some salt mix and went forward to see if I could successfully keep salt water fish. Which I did, but not without some mistakes along the way, like topping off evaporated water with salt water, it wasn't too long before I figured out what was not the right thing to do, I was just lucky that my two fish are rather hardy fish. After deciding I had the basics down I bought a used tank (135g) and unfortunately stayed with it :D

    The first question you should ask that will dictate all of your other aquarium needs is what do you want in the tank, if it's just Nemo & friends with no corals or anemone (real ones at least) then your job is going to be considerably easier. If you want all sorts of corals and anemones, etc then you're talking way more difficult.

    Answer that first question, trust me, it'll make everything much more clearer, 100g might seem like a large tank, but it won't take much to overcrowd it, and make it not so open. Considering you have no experience, I would go the direction I did (maybe a little more fancy) perhaps an all in one aquarium, toss a couple of "Nemo fish" in you could even do some softer corals with the built in lights and make your whole job a lot more easier.

    Yes and no. I think of it like big boat vs small boat, big boat won't be as affected by a wave of a particular height as a small boat, but if you find yourself in trouble the big boat takes a lot more to steer it out of danger.

    Well while true a larger capacity skimmer doesn't increase linearly in price for "capacity" (and take that number with a grain of salt) by going bigger you're going to be spending considerably more for the tank. More for lighting, more for electricity, more for chemicals/salt mix/etc. So you spent only $50 more for a bigger skimmer, but you end up spending $100 more a month on electricity, $1000 more for the larger tank, $800 more for lighting (yes I'm just throwing random numbers out there). What I would do, is get the 110G skimmer and put it on the 60G tank, since those sizes are usually overly inflated (or set for a minimal bioload tank)

    You can use online stores to price some of this stuff, and I apologize if the LFS is reading this, but very often they will sell you everything they want you to buy for a tank, not necessarily need and not necessarily what you should buy for things you do need.


    105G star fire rim less tank
    48½ x 24½ x 21
    Decent Stand no canopy

    This probably will be your largest costing item. Rimless means much thicker glass, and Starphire (not fire) glass is considerably more expensive than normal glass, and often acrylic. Not sure if any manufacturers make this size tank as a stock size, but if it needs to be custom made I have a feeling you're going to get a big sticker shock quote on it.


    2 - ehiem compact 5000 - do I need this exact pumps , they seem over kill?
    1- R-300 refugium - do I need this exact one? it worth $350??
    1 - SSA ES2 Skimmer -- is it good or something else is enough ? $450
    3 - Kessil A350 - market rate - enough lighting ?
    1 - Tunz osmolator universal
    2- Vortech MP40 W ES
    1 - controller
    Not sure about call reactor considering not going to have much to begin with so will add later if needed.

    To answer some of your questions, no you don't need that exact one... for ANYTHING. But before I comment on anything else, answer that first question, what do you want in your tank. That will help dictate the direction to go for all your equipment. If you want just fish and rocks the price on all that equipment drops like a rock, if you want full blow coral reef then you're looking towards the more expensive side of things... with the caveat that about half of that equipment I would not consider buying (other brands of something similar sure). Looking at the list though, it does look like a LFS trying to sell you a tank with their level of "advisement" (i.e. the equipment they have in stock or can easily order) Will it work? Sure, do you need that equipment though? Nope.
     
  19. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    Again, no one is making crazy money as you suggest, you can quit with that line of thinking already ;) You are simply not taking into account the cost of doing business.

    No I do not own a store, and no, I will not post where I work as that is here nor there. I have worked every facet of this industry - retail - wholesale - manufacture - even collection, but via stateside management, not actual collections.

    There are lots of ways to cut costs and I can assure you most steps have been implemented that can be. No one is more concerned with their bottom line then the company itself. Ecotech did not get the business awards they have gotten from not being business savvy ;) Top 500 small company in the US ;)

    Not sure what you are trying to say with that link? Purchases were made via a local dealer, awesome, they got points along with Ecotech.

    Most stores in the Bay Area have gone out of business as the economy of scale in the Bay Area dropped drastically after the tech bubble burst, and the housing market bubble burst. That cut the amount of expandable cash in the Bay Area considerably. We even lost several wholesalers in the Bay Area. Less customers = less money

    50% cheaper would put everyone out of business :lol: If we cut our prices by 50%, we'd be giving the product away. At a 25% reduction = a 50% retail reduction, we'd have zero room for growth. If you are not growing, you are dying. Stagnent business in no business model.
     
  20. ReefLove

    ReefLove Guest

    Well as many have I might as well do that but not today, As today I can afford best of what is out there and money is little concern for me; so if I get out before even starting the hobby then it will not be because of money.

    I just saw things and commented on them, and being an outsider I can give a fresh look. So don't take it on face value that I can not afford the hobby, but the question is greater than if I can afford or not. Hope you see that.

    I was not sure the forum is full of people who thinks that the cost if justified and there is no way of making it more popular and make it available to many people.
     

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