180 gallon build thread aka Jims' bad idea!

Discussion in 'DIY' started by bookfish, May 1, 2007.

  1. bookfish

    bookfish Guest

    I will be getting an acrylic 180 very soon. Six by two by two.
    I already have the 120 for the sump. I will be trying a few new tricks on this 180 and using some old favorite stuff as well.
    For those of you who don't visit, I'll bug my friends to take some pics as the build progresses. I'll post this build here and at www.reefhobbyistmagazine.com and that's it.

    First of all, after hearing Rich and Gresh go on about Geyer (sp?) systems, I finally went back and read the RDO mag (Advanced Aquarist iirc) from Jan where they talk about this system. Very inspiring, and anyone who's ever spent time with corals in the wild can tell you they're no strangers to direct linear flow (part of the Geyer principle actually). But I don't want a huge sheet of acrylic to divide my tank so I've taken the baffle and lowered it so it can be a shelf for live rock to sit up on. Perhaps 3" from the bottom in the front and rising to 5" over 1.5'. So this angled shelf for rock will have a couple of penductors strapped to the bottom angled to deflect off the bottom and roll flow up the front face of the tank. I will use a pressure pump CL to power these.At the ends of the tank, I'll return down the back wall from the sump. This will be the higher velocity return (as opposed to the peductors far greater volume but lower velocity). If it all works, I should have a constantly rolling fat center of water further accelerated by the high velocity returns from the sump. Plans are currently for a 4' Calfo style o/f but since the 180's eurobraced, maybe I'll go 5'?
    Stay tuned for part 2 of "Jims' bad idea"
    Next:"Norm and Jim build a stand!"

    All comments, questions etc... are welcome!
     
  2. Elite

    Elite Guest

    I would like to know more about Geyer's system... :) ..

    You still have the 90G cube right??
     
  3. Raddogz

    Raddogz Guest

    Oh...yeah. What happened to that cube Jim?

    I inherited the rocks out of Michael's tank.
     
  4. Mr. Ugly

    Mr. Ugly Past President

    Cube has been banished from Jim's place :D

    Here's the article about gyre tanks:

    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

    Funny that I was planning on the same kind of variations on the gyre article for my 24x48x16.

    Jim and I both had decided to do back to front gyres blowing across the bottom, up the front, and back toward the overflow rather than longitudinally in the tank. I'm using a couple Seios and a couple MJ mods that I have laying around rather than the CL. Return pump dumps down the back on mine too. I'll do that close to the corners to help compensate for the extra drag at the end panes.
     
  5. Thales

    Thales Past President

    I am a little worried about front to back gyres because they may need the length of the tank to get the flow moving. We'll see though!
     
  6. bookfish

    bookfish Guest

    [quote author=Thales link=topic=2024.msg19767#msg19767 date=1178086095]
    I am a little worried about front to back gyres because they may need the length of the tank to get the flow moving. We'll see though!
    [/quote]
    Yup, definitely a concern. I guess I'm prepared to step up pump sizes till I get the effect I want.
    I will only have 4 points of acceleration for the flow but I'm hoping the penductors will help.
     
  7. Mr. Ugly

    Mr. Ugly Past President

    Yah, front to back may not be optimal.

    Then again, I'm thinking the closer to cylindrical cross section of the gyre in this orientation may help to conserve the angular momentum of the rotating mass of water.

    Hmm... wonder what would happen if someone set up a reef in a kreisel tank? :D
     
  8. Thales

    Thales Past President

    :D

    What I am really worried about in the shot section gyre is the influence that any obstructions will have, ie rocks. But well never know until someone puts one together.
     
  9. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Jim will be the guinea p... er experimenter in this ! :D

    Interesting idea though, especially after all the talk by Calfo and others how laminar flow is "bad"

    I wonder if you couldn't build a rock wall instead of acrylic to give it a slightly less unnatural look.
     
  10. Raddogz

    Raddogz Guest

    I have laminar flow in the large tank due to the vortech - the flow goes in circles.

    So as my mind is slowly trying to wrap itself around this idea, this system is more of a back to front circular flow effect
     
  11. Elite

    Elite Guest

    [quote author=Mr. Ugly link=topic=2024.msg19766#msg19766 date=1178085723]
    Cube has been banished from Jim's place :D

    Here's the article about gyre tanks:

    http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

    Funny that I was planning on the same kind of variations on the gyre article for my 24x48x16.

    Jim and I both had decided to do back to front gyres blowing across the bottom, up the front, and back toward the overflow rather than longitudinally in the tank. I'm using a couple Seios and a couple MJ mods that I have laying around rather than the CL. Return pump dumps down the back on mine too. I'll do that close to the corners to help compensate for the extra drag at the end panes.
    [/quote]

    I guess Jim gets tired feeding those anemone huh :D ...

    Interesting article... You guys need to post more pics and drawing so I can understand better ;D :D
     
  12. Thales

    Thales Past President

    [quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2024.msg19774#msg19774 date=1178122574]
    Jim will be the guinea p... er experimenter in this ! :D

    Interesting idea though, especially after all the talk by Calfo and others how laminar flow is "bad"

    I wonder if you couldn't build a rock wall instead of acrylic to give it a slightly less unnatural look.


    [/quote]

    I tried it with my system, didn't work. It seems the long smooth single direction is what is needed to get he water moving.

    With a gyre, it would be easy to reverse the flow - just have two sets of pumps facing each other and switch them. If you staggered them, you could even have them on at the same time and create a turbulent flow in the tank. I like this idea so much, I may have to set up another tank to try it.

    Or find some time to run some tests...
     
  13. Elite

    Elite Guest

    So it's good for frag tank but ugly for display tank then..
     
  14. Thales

    Thales Past President

    That may be. With rock in the tank you may get the same kind of dead spots you get with any other method of flow.

    It doesn't have to be ugly, you can do it against the back wall which seems to work.
     
  15. Raddogz

    Raddogz Guest

    Using a display tank as an example it would depend on how the rock structure is like wouldn't it?
     
  16. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Hmmm I'm unsure if this will really work. I thought half of the idea was the forced water that goes in one side and comes back only to get "repushed" by the pump(s) so that you really keep up the velocity, if you oscillated you'd need to have your pumps to first slow all that water movement down, then bring it back up to speed.. but then again by "switching" if you mean throwing them on a timer that's spaced by 30 minutes or so, that'd probably work wonders.. I'd be curious how this would work on a frag tank.

    For a frag tank though... hmm seems like the best of both worlds with stuff on both sides but I thought the point was to NOT have anything on one side simply to allow a place for the water to pick up momentum before coming around. Interesting ideas though, like I don't even know if you need to make equal partitions to make this work. Maybe two small channels one on either side, and a large "display" area down the middle... NORM! Get to work! :)
     
  17. Thales

    Thales Past President

    [quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2024.msg19794#msg19794 date=1178130941]

    Hmmm I'm unsure if this will really work. I thought half of the idea was the forced water that goes in one side and comes back only to get "repushed" by the pump(s) so that you really keep up the velocity, if you oscillated you'd need to have your pumps to first slow all that water movement down, then bring it back up to speed.. but then again by "switching" if you mean throwing them on a timer that's spaced by 30 minutes or so, that'd probably work wonders.. I'd be curious how this would work on a frag tank.
    [/quote]

    I meant at least 30 minutes or so. I don't really like things that switch fast. I don't think they give the water enough time to 'adjust'. I would try to make the flow reflect, violent, ebb, flow and slack tides. :D
     
  18. bookfish

    bookfish Guest

    [quote author=Thales link=topic=2024.msg19771#msg19771 date=1178114846]
    :D

    What I am really worried about in the shot section gyre is the influence that any obstructions will have, ie rocks. But well never know until someone puts one together.
    [/quote]
    I will have the rock platform raised up on round acrylic legs to try and reduce this issue. The rock I own will only just skin the rack anyway once it's spread out on a 5.5' x 1.5' rack. I'm also hoping the flow will sweep detritus out from under the rack and under the rock on the rack. Like magic, detritus will be transported directly to the giant overflow box.

    Well, I can dream can't I?
     
  19. bookfish

    bookfish Guest

    [quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2024.msg19774#msg19774 date=1178122574]
    Jim will be the guinea p... er experimenter in this ! :D

    Interesting idea though, especially after all the talk by Calfo and others how laminar flow is "bad"

    I wonder if you couldn't build a rock wall instead of acrylic to give it a slightly less unnatural look.


    [/quote]
    I hope I won't have direct laminar flow on the corals as much as billowing, upwelling flow. We'll see though.
    I believe part of the trick is is to have smooth surfaces to allow flow to maintain momentum. The roughness of the rock would be a severe drag (npi).
     
  20. bookfish

    bookfish Guest

    [quote author=Raddogz link=topic=2024.msg19781#msg19781 date=1178124510]
    I have laminar flow in the large tank due to the vortech - the flow goes in circles.

    So as my mind is slowly trying to wrap itself around this idea, this system is more of a back to front circular flow effect
    [/quote]
    Hopefully, yes.
    Down the back wall, behind and under the smooth acrylic rack, into the penductors and deflected off the bottom, hitting the front viewing pane and rolling up to the calfo o/f in the back. This would be the somewhat slower circular flow (penductors=greater volume/less velocity) in the middle 3/4of the tank. At about 1' in from the ends, I will have the high velocity returns pointed down the back wall. If you envision a hand rolled cigarette, thin at both ends, and larger in the middle, that's what I want my flow pattern to look like.
     

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