Activated Carbon: HHLE Smoking Gun

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by Guest, May 5, 2011.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found

    Thank you Jay Hemdal!!!!
     
  2. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Wow, nicely done study!
    Sure does see to implicate carbon fines, particularly lignite.

    So of course the next question - what to do????
    Besides panicking and immediately tossing out all carbon. :)
    There are the simple items mentioned in the article - wash carbon, use low dust carbon, no tumbling.
    Easy, and safe.

    Seachem Purigen in particular is on of the carbon-alternatives a few people mention.
    Anyone with experience using that?
     
  3. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Lotsa club members use Purigen. Pretty sure Jeremy loves the stuff.

    Jay has a lot of works he's authored, and he's not only super knowledgeable, he's down to earth and highly approachable. Which reminds me, I still need to pick up his latest fish health book.
     
  4. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    I use Purigen all the time, love it, in fact I added 500ml to a tank 2 hours ago.

    Don't toss your carbon, just run it passively and occasionally. Running it in a reactor and leaving it in there is not a real good idea for many reasons, not just HLLE.
     
  5. Thales

    Thales Past President

    When Jay first started talking about this I had two sailfin tangs in different tanks on a common system that never ran carbon ever. One got HLLE, the other didn't. What am I missing?
     
  6. tuberider

    tuberider Guest


    The bag of carbon disguised as a live rock....
     
  7. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest


    Dude what you following my lead? First FB now here?

    Its psychosomatic - the fish THINK there is carbon in the tank.
     
  8. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Yah I ditch my carbon reactor and a while back and went back to hanging a bag. I did it out of laziness though :D
     
  9. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    The article did not by any means prove that carbon fines are the ONLY cause of HLLE.

    And for that matter, without detailing on how it causes HLLE, you do not know if it is even a direct effect,
    or an indirect effect through some other agent.
     
  10. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    was that on one of your PA forums?
     
  11. Thales

    Thales Past President

    Yeah...I think I talked to him about it a little in person too, but maybe not.
     
  12. Matt_Wandell

    Matt_Wandell Honorary Member

    Take away part of that article for me is that the lignite carbon used in the study was UNWASHED.

    In other words, make sure you rinse the hell out of your carbon if you plan on using it, and don't let it tumble/grind to create powder. We use lignite in a bunch of different systems (including the big tank with scores of tangs) without problems.

    Also, go Jay!
     
  13. Thales

    Thales Past President

    By the way Gresh - you are a golden god.
     
  14. Thales

    Thales Past President


    Then it prolly shouldn't be billed as 'the smoking gun' eh?
     
  15. Thales

    Thales Past President

    Ah - cool. Now I don't have to ask you! :D

    I love Jay.
     
  16. Matt_Wandell

    Matt_Wandell Honorary Member

    Well...

    Think of it like claiming that sex without condoms is the smoking gun for HIV infection. There are certainly other ways, say needlesharing or blood transfusion, but this is one confirmed causative factor. Actually, I don't think there are any other confirmed causative factors for HLLE, so maybe my analogy sucks.

    I'm 4 Bohemias into a good Cinco de Mayo so maybe this makes zero sense!
     
  17. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Even 4 bottles in you make sense Matt :D
     
  18. Thales

    Thales Past President

    My two shots of jager agree with your 4 bohemians.
     
  19. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Hard to say with titles and analogies.
    Guns don't kill people, lead poisoning kills people. :)

    My take is pretty simple:
    Unwashed carbon and tumbling carbon in a reactor seems to be a very bad idea.
    Since there are viable alternatives to running carbon 24/7, might be a good idea to consider them.
    But getting rid of carbon is not a magic solution that will always eliminate HLLE.
    And pretty timely info for me, as I plan to have a couple of tangs soon.
     
  20. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Ahh man sounds fun. I have a HUGE bottle I was going to bring to NERAC just for you. Next show :)
     

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