Activated Carbon: HHLE Smoking Gun

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by Guest, May 5, 2011.

  1. Matt_Wandell

    Matt_Wandell Honorary Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hmmm, don't know if I'd word it that way, if I am understanding you correctly. I'd say it is definitely a good idea to ensure that your carbon cannot be sucked into pumps (this is how it has caused HLLE in several PA incidents) nor fluidized, no matter what length of time you run it.

    Lots of beneficial husbandry routines have potential risks--you can overdose kalkwasser, vodka, use too much GFO, etc. As long as we are aware of the risks and take appropriate steps to prevent any problems there's no reason to stop using them.

    5 beers in, just a caveat. I'm amazed I'm still spelling okay!
     
  2. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,518
    Likes Received:
    726
    Yeah, must be 5 Bud Lights if you can still spell kalkwasser.
    :)

    It really means I am just going to think about it.
    Maybe consider Purigen.
    I run so little carbon anyway, hardly an issue for me.
     
  3. seminolecpa

    seminolecpa Past President

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    6,506
    Likes Received:
    1
    So Rich what effect does this have on the garlic and ginger :)
     
  4. Thales

    Thales Past President

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,444
    Likes Received:
    43
    It stops people from volunteering to help club events :D
     
  5. houser

    houser Past President

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,690
    Likes Received:
    1
    Can I get in on this?
    I'm at 4 beers but a late start...
     
  6. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,856
    Likes Received:
    1,208
    I thought you had to be under 25 to drink jeager? I still do, but I'm just sayin!
     
  7. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    We are ;)


    at heart!
     
  8. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Dude you can't fool me... your playing us.

    I know this scam...

    YOU>>>>Oh I am such a light weight. I can't believe I can still walk. We should do another round.

    ME>>> puuuuuuke

    YOU>>>hahahahahaha yah I was a bartender for many years :D
     
  9. anathema

    anathema Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    87
    My gf made jello shots. I think I have hlle.
     
  10. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    I could have told you that Gusty. It's all the diesel fumes I'm afraid. High carbon content ;)
     
  11. anathema

    anathema Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    87
    At least I'm high quality. I can tell because I fizz when I get wet.
     
  12. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    12,948
    Likes Received:
    1,056
    That's what I got away with, I mean they said it's rarely seen in nature, however it's still seen in nature. It's more like carbon fines are a causative factor that increases the chance of HLLE. Like cancer, lots of things which increase the chances, not just a single thing that causes cancer (I still eat red meat... and do so happily, cancer or not!!!)

    I do question though why do you see them come into a LFS with HLLE, are they caught that way? Or do wholesalers actively run carbon kind of recklessly? (I'm ignorant on that side of the equation) or is there something else which causes it?

    I at one time had a purple tang with HLLE, bought it that way (supreme discount), and I never ran carbon and yeah it did end up clearing up, the scaring was still visible but it didn't look as bad.
     
  13. h20player101

    h20player101 Guest

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    6
    I would be interested in seeing a similar study done for the different types of carbon, wood, coal, lignite, and coconut shell. Also, makes me wonder if you have the carbon bag somewhere closer to the feed for your skimmer, would that be better?
     
  14. GDawson

    GDawson Guest

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    8
    Not sure if this is any relevance or not:

    Though I’ve seen HLLE in both in people’s homes and in the LFS (both rarely) the majority of the time I’ve seen it is in public displays that are maintained by a service (restaurants, hotels, office lobbies, etc…).

    I know there are a couple of people here that do this for a living (not saying your tanks have this issue!). Is there a common thread of things routinely done in maintained tanks vs private tanks that may contribute? Or does this point back to carbon or excessive use thereof?

    -Gregory
     
  15. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    9,050
    Likes Received:
    4

    That points to a lack of overall husbandry, there are some tricks employed by some service companies that disregard the fish.
     
  16. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    7,856
    Likes Received:
    1,208
    We are just service guys, not companies, oh yeah, and we are both BAR members and actually care about the animals we serve! Seriously though, I think that water quality and diet do play a role in this sometimes.
     
  17. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,980
    Likes Received:
    336
    I used to use 20lbs of pelletized carbon that was changed weekly (along with gravel vac to 35% water change) in a 450gal African cichlid aquarium. The fish developed sinus pitting. I have since changed to only 2lbs of carbon and 10 day water change cycle. The sinus pitting is no longer a problem.

    The carbon was used to control odor
     
  18. anathema

    anathema Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    87
    The thing that I take away from this is that it's a symptom of malnutrition, as it's always been described. Malnutrition can happen without it (and does happen in the wild) but carbon strips out "something" that is significant for the fishes health. The next step would seem to me to run a test on water deficient in a single vitamin or nutrient but I don't think that's easily done and there would still be the possibility that it's a combination of missing nutrient. I would still severely doubt that HLLE is an "allergic reaction" type response which is what would lead me to call it a smoking gun. This to me is more a situation of "hey we can remove something important with carbon overuse."

    That it seems to be carbon fines may only be significant because of increase surface area, and this all may simply point to using carbon in moderation.

    I applaud the author for his work though, and I'm glad people smarter than me are working on these issues.
     
  19. anathema

    anathema Guest

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    87
    It also occurs to me that a starting point would be to analyze pre and post use carbon fines and granules and see if fines are much more proficient in absorbing a certain chemical. It could also provide a "short list" of substances for the above testing.

    However not being a biologist I assume those tests are expensive or impossible.
     
  20. 99sf

    99sf Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow, thank you for sharing the article. I went home and removed my mesh bag of ROX premium carbon (which was well-rinsed before placing in my sump). Wonder if the difference between ROX and lignite carbon would have any effect on HLLE. Don't want to risk having my tangs develop erosion.
     

Share This Page