got ethical husbandry?

Advice

iCon said:
Wow, poor form by GentleDentle on RC. Not sure if they're on here, but not cool IMO.

To be fair, this picture looks to show the seam issue: http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=402370&d=1562266545
(If it is indeed in the upper left of the front pane) But again, that's on the buyer IMO. They inspected it, they bought it. Unless you purposely hid something, I don't think it's your problem...
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Eh, I don't think what we're doing here is wrong, I mean it's not like we're saying "f**k that guy, go blow your money on strippers and blow! mwuahahahaha" he asked a question on how to handle a situation he probably never encountered (at least of this scale) and we're giving advice based on information that is known. If he wants to point out that we're discussing the matter and giving advice, then sure this is a public forum whatever. Is there some "we know ya Bruce" bias here, of course there is but we're also not trying to give advice on how to screw someone over. Who knows maybe he/she is trying to make sure we're keeping honest.

Now that picture is a "smoking gun" I'd say that you can't blame this on the buyer at all, at least the "him causing damage bit". But it does change things as far as how to proceed because now you know that damage was not caused by him, and was an existing problem. That said, while I do believe there is some level of "let the buyer beware" and "inspect your goods before you purchase" I probably isn't as cut and dry as that. All that said, big glass tank, the less you move them the better, how you want to proceed is up to you based on what he's wanting. Would I give a refund if that's what he wanted, probably... but he's responsible for bringing the tank back (and inspect it to make sure it's hasn't been tampered with or further damaged)... but again I can totally understand not doing that too, I mean this isn't a skimmer or something small and easily moved, but as long as he's going to move it (including setting it up again on a stand/condition it was in before it took it) then yeah I'd do that.
 
sfsuphysics said:
All that said, big glass tank, the less you move them the better, how you want to proceed is up to you based on what he's wanting. Would I give a refund if that's what he wanted, probably... but he's responsible for bringing the tank back (and inspect it to make sure it's hasn't been tampered with or further damaged)... but again I can totally understand not doing that too, I mean this isn't a skimmer or something small and easily moved, but as long as he's going to move it (including setting it up again on a stand/condition it was in before it took it) then yeah I'd do that.
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Maybe offer that he keeps the tank and give him half his money back and the other half in future free corals when you have them available. That is assuming you don't want the tank back.
 
This depends a lot on state of mind. When I sell things I do so in good faith, believing that I'm selling them with an accurate description, it's as is where is, and I've been on both sides of it. When I buy used tanks I specifically insist that they be full of room temperature or warmer water (no condensation) when I arrive, or that I will want them to fill it and wait on site before I pay. I offer to do the same to anyone I sell to. Some want to see that, some don't. So long as the OP did not intentionally deceive the seller I'd say he's in the clear. If his conscience requires that he offer the buyer a partial discount, frag, whatever, he is welcome to do so, but that's a courtesy not a requirement. He trusted this tank enough to have it full of water in his home.
Obviously if he knew about the issue and actively hid it that's a separate issue.

Notable cases, all from before I was in the Bay Area:
-A relatively unknown member who sold me (among other things) a broken salinity probe. He assured me it worked, promised we would work something out if it didn't since it was in storage for a while.....and it didn't work when I got home. He offered a partial refund, I agreed, and after several return calls and promises he never made good on it. I don't buy from him anymore. I don't go out of my way to trash his name, but if anyone ever asked me specifically about him I would explain the history. If I saw someone I know well about to buy from him I would probably explain the history as well.
-I sold an ATI light fixture to another member in the local club. I took and then sent him a picture of the fixture with all lights working the morning before he came over. I offered to plug it in while he was there and he declined. It didn't work when he got home. I offered to take a look at it for him (I thought he had an issue with an odd way of controlling it it), but did not offer to take it back. He ended up replacing a ballast on his own. He's bought from me since so I think he was happy in the end.
-A 260 gallon (don't remember exactly, not a common shape) aquarium that a friend sold, as is, where is. Buyer was specifically warned to take the bulkheads out before moving it. Buyer opted instead to rest it on blocks in their trailer without removing the bulkheads. Buyer paid, picked it up, and promptly put it down with the bulkhead resting on the block....crunch. Q: "Do you think it'll be ok (visible large crack)" Answer from my friend: "I'm ok, you already paid, do with it what you want"
-I had one person interested in buying my current reef tank. In addition to the usual scratches there's a giant chip on the back (and internal reinforcement). I absolutely made sure to mention this.
 
One more, and I'm actually curious what the rest of you would do in this case (then I'll stop derailing this thread). I listed a 125 on Craigslist as a reptile tank for something like $50. Both top center braces were gone, the rest of the top brace was cracking in places, the bottom brace had at least two corners cracked off, and there were a couple notable chips that I'm surprised held water. The middle bows out easily 1/2" when I was using it as RO storage in an unfinished basement next to a floor drain, with nothing else important on the basement floor. A kid shows up to buy it with his girlfriend, and makes it clear that he's going to turn it in to a tropical fish aquarium in his living room, on a stand he's going to build. I explain weight and floor beams, I explain that under no circumstances do I think anyone should put water in this, that I'm only doing it for the above mentioned reasons and that I don't think doing so is safe under any other circumstances. I explain flood damage, the weigh of giant broken pieces of glass, and then I explain all of this to his girlfriend. They still insist on buying it, so I did sell it to them. Would you have refused the sale?
 
Derailed reply: Refuse sale, no. People are free to do "dumb" things if they want, sometimes this is a broken tank that they want to fix (ahem... Mario :D), sometimes it's doing something even though someone tells you otherwise "hey this tank was infested with aiptasia, I would really bleach down the surfaces". You warned them, in fact I personally know reptile tanks typically have thinner glass than aquariums because they're not expected to be full of water, and with all the damage to bracing that's 100% on them if something goes wrong. Heck, I'd say even if you didn't warn them you were selling a reptile tank not a fish tank, as long as you say that you're in the clear IMO.
 
One of my common strategies on normal used items: Give people a specific 2 day warranty.
Return it within 2 days, not demolished, get money back no questions asked.
Beyond 2 days, you are on your own.
It solves all those issues.
I think it helps sell items also.
 
What's the cost to get that seam repaired?

In your shoes I may offer to pay or split that cost with the buyer since nobody is certain it happened in transport (but yeah, most likely). And it's on him to actually get the work done.

I wouldn't want to take it back, that's for sure. Lug it around, repair, find a new buyer, blah blah blah.
 
I think you have to refund. The photo pre-sale clearly shows the area that is damaged when you posted the tank for sale, I originally thought that the seam looked bad. I chalked it up to a strange reflection.
 
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iani said:
I think you have to refund. The photo pre-sale clearly shows the area that is damaged. When you posted the tank for sale, I originally thought that the seam looked bad. I chalked it up to a strange reflection.
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Shopping for a tank, eh?
 
jccaclimber said:
One more, and I'm actually curious what the rest of you would do in this case (then I'll stop derailing this thread). I listed a 125 on Craigslist as a reptile tank for something like $50. Both top center braces were gone, the rest of the top brace was cracking in places, the bottom brace had at least two corners cracked off, and there were a couple notable chips that I'm surprised held water. The middle bows out easily 1/2" when I was using it as RO storage in an unfinished basement next to a floor drain, with nothing else important on the basement floor. A kid shows up to buy it with his girlfriend, and makes it clear that he's going to turn it in to a tropical fish aquarium in his living room, on a stand he's going to build. I explain weight and floor beams, I explain that under no circumstances do I think anyone should put water in this, that I'm only doing it for the above mentioned reasons and that I don't think doing so is safe under any other circumstances. I explain flood damage, the weigh of giant broken pieces of glass, and then I explain all of this to his girlfriend. They still insist on buying it, so I did sell it to them. Would you have refused the sale?
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At some point they need to take personal responsibility.
 
So I went back and took a look at the pics I sent pre-sale. I did this mainly because of the pic that was shared here that did appear to clearly show silicon "shrinkage", but then realized that I had never seen that when the tank was set up AND that Mike helped me break it down (as well as other people from the club) and not one of us noticed an issue. There's no doubt in my mind that Mike would have seen when we spent an hour or so getting coral and fish out even if somehow I had missed it in the hundreds of hours I worked on it. Even the buyer who inspected it and then moved it with a friend of his (which took almost an hour) would have noticed it as HE was carrying that end.

There was a light on that end of the tank (corner of the room) that you can see reflected and does make it appear that washes out that corner and causes a weird reflection.I am posting some other pics that were listed with it as well.

IMG_1789.jpg
IMG_1793.jpg
 
The fact that you can see it in multiple photos at different angles would logically indicate it's not a reflection.
 
So I’m curious. Does it hold water still? Are people worried that seam will leak in the future, or do we know it leaks already. I honestly can’t tell from pics.
 
I say take it outside and fill it up. If it doesn’t leak I’d go for it. But then again, I’m cheap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I must be missing something. I don't see it in the other pics at all, but then I know it had a clean line (or as noted a lot of us would have noted it when it was up and being taken down.)
 
Yeah I'm with Ian on this, if you look at his photo (close up) you can clearly see the "missing silicone" pattern matches up pretty well to the point of being the same spot, including the random pieces that stick out.. ok clearly is a bit much but if you zoom in on your tiny tiny pictures you can see everything fairly ok. Now could it have separated a little more while moving? Sure, but it's pretty clear this was an existing issue.

Doesn't say anything about whether or not it holds water mind you, but the silicone was missing.
 
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