Anthias keep getting the flukes

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by javisaman, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. javisaman

    javisaman Guest

    Recently moved to the bay area from MD, and had my aquarium set up from the beginning of March. I have 4 juvenile bartlett's anthias that I've kept for a little over a month and half now. Naively, since I bought the fish from one of the more reputable stores in the SF bay area (where I am now) and my tank was pretty empty, I didn't quarantine them. For a week they looked fine, but soon after they showed some symptoms relating to flukes:

    1) Frayed fins (tissue between spines is gone)
    2) bullying cleaner shrimp
    3) scratching against rocks
    4) random spasms of flashing across the tank (jumping out!)

    I did a prazi pro treatment for 5 days and noticed improvements. The fins grew back and behavior was almost normal. Consequently a couple of the fish got secondary infections (red blotches), that I assume were internal bacterial infections that lead to hemorrhaging. After the first regiment, I fed 3-4 times a day, with selcon nutramar ova, pe mysis, and NLS Thera-A. The discoloration disappeared after about 3 days and all seemed well. A few days after that, I noticed again the fish were showing signs of flukes (this time frayed fins and hiding). I started a second regiment of prazi pro (around 4 days after the first). In between I had done 3 x 10% water changes, ran the skimmer again, and ran chemi-pure elite, but of course removed the carbon and took off the collection cup during treatments. During the second treatment, the fish started behaving normally again but showed lesions around the second day. I followed up with the same nutrition plan and the lesions went away and the fins grew back. I stopped the treatment last thursday, did a water change, ran my skimmer, and put the carbon back. Sunday I noticed again that the fish's fins were frayed and they were hiding again. So I started my third regiment that day. By Tuesday the fins were improved and one of the fish showed an infection.

    Why is it that the anthias are dependent on the prazi-pro? Their behavior and fins seem to be fine when I'm doing a treatment (but filtration is off outside of LR). Though I haven't been able to catch any of them and confirm that they have flukes by an FW dip, I'm almost certain that they do based on what I've researched so far and the fact that the prazi-pro seems to have some affect. They always seem to be getting secondary infections during or right after the treatment.

    I would like to have this cured before I bring in the rest of my corals (SPS) from MD. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make my treatment more effective? I have ordered Seachem's Focus and Metronizadole to at least help with the secondary infections.

    My specs

    60 gallon w/ 20 gallon sump
    Bubble Magus curve 5 skimmer

    Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0, Nitrate = 20 (a bit high); API Saltwater test kits, Salifert and Hanna are in MD...

    Other Live stock:
    1 Large Ocellaris clown (no signs of flukes)
    1 female mandarin (also no signs of flukes)
    1 blood red fire shrimp
    1 halloween hermit
    1 turbo snail
    3 trochus snails
    1 florida fighting conch

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    I've soaked food in prazipro before. Might help...
     
  3. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

    Anthias feed on plankton all day long on the reef. I recommend you try to replicate with more than 4 feelings each day. I would include as any forms of plankton and shrimp as you can find.
    If you pm me I can elaborate.
    Good luck
     
  4. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    You mention removing carbon, but did you leave chemi-pure elite in wile dosing?
    That has carbon and other things in it that could very easily reduce the prazipro.

    Also, did you do this in your main tank, with live rock and sand?
    Again, that could reduce prazipro dose as well.

    For further reading, WetWebMedia has a lot of good info on flukes and prazipro.
     
  5. javisaman

    javisaman Guest

    I've done this as well but only a couple of drops per cup, I've read, however, it can be dangerous:

    http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1466879&perpage=25&highlight=prazipro tinkers&pagenumber=3


    I thought 4 feedings was sufficient especially with the easier anthias like bartletts,. They are not at all skinny, but still may have some vitamin deficiencies. I will try upping the feedings.




    Yes, by carbon I meant the chemi-pure elite. I don't have a separate carbon reactor here. I am dosing my DT and it has live rock and sand.


    Thanks again everyone!
     
  6. goldielocke76

    goldielocke76 Supporting Member

    I'm sorry but I don't agree with the RC thread. I've soaked my fishes food, in my SW tanks and my FW tanks, many a times with Prazipro to treat for IPs and or other symptoms. I've never had a problem even if the food has soaked for days in a mixture or Prazipro and garlic, and I don't measure, I just put some in to cover all the food and let it soak. I think the OP had something else going on since they had issues with flukes, and who knows what else if there was no QT. Prazipro is known for working very well but being very gentle for fish. FWIW, I do used Prazipro and not some cheap knock off.

    Selcon and vitachem both work very well if the fish need an immune boost. I also use beta glucan pills found in vitamin shops per gimmitos recommendation. He said it helps boost their immune system.

    Hope that helps. Good luck with your anthias!
     
  7. javisaman

    javisaman Guest

    Well there seems to be a mistake on my part. My measuring spoons had the marking rubbed off and I may have been using the 1/2 teaspoon instead of the 1 teaspoon to do the dosing...I atleast made the mistake for this current regiment.
     
  8. javisaman

    javisaman Guest

    Well I stopped the prazipro on Saturday, since the Anthias seemed to be doing much better. I upped the feeding to 4-5 times a day, mixing as much cyclopeeze as I could. Fins were fine, and spots were gone. I also have been feeding Seachem's Focus and Metronizadole, as well as prazipro. Unfortunately this morning I saw my pom-pom crab munching on the dead carcass of the largest female. I immediately pulled it out and did an fw dip; no flukes, nothing came off the fish. The fish was fat, color was good, and no strange behavior. The crab ate all of it's fins and one of its eyes. I'm even surprised how strong it was. For a crab so slow, when it wants something it moves fast even dragging an anthias 5x its size with it. I doubt it killed it. Should I be concerned? http://www.nano-reef...killer-pom-pom/ indicates that they can be mean. I don't get it. There aren't any flukes, the parameters seems fine (even more sensitive animals like the shrimp and LPS corals seem to be doing well). I've attached pictures of the male anthias and some video which shows their typical appearance and behavior. Keep in mind the fish was afraid of the camera. http://www.flickr.com/photos/javisaman/9445045085/ http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7305/9447824186_24181fbd90_o.jpg http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3722/9445039739_126c5da72f_o.jpg
     

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