BAR meeting featuring Richard Ross December 12th 1:00

[sfsuphysics]

Well talking with Mark (re: Pygmy angel rearing) its not as secretive as it was is what I got from him, however it's a absolutely insane amount of work.

So about cardinals is it just the Bangai that reproduce? Or are there other species? Those blue eyed ones look kind of cool.

 

[Thales]

Lyn,

Thanks for the nice response. Since we seem to be on the same page regarding mutual respect and such I thought I would take a stab a clarifying this statement:

However, I felt that when blanket statements about groups of people or cultures are pronounced to everyone, which may have a negative slant to it, even in jest, there should be a pertinent reason as to why the comment was made. Also, there should be unbiased evidence to back up that statement, or it should not be made at all.

I believed from the beginning that it wasn't your intention to offend anyone, but I still felt that I needed an explanation since your comment was made publicly. I just hope no one says anything derogatory about those little green Martians, or I may have to come to their defense. :bigsmile:

This makes me think that you feel I said something that was biased or not backed up. In the 'Fun Facts' section of the talk I said that the principal income of Tonga is Tongans living abroad and that the second largest source is from Mormons. Both of those statements are true and unbiased - from both my reading and from discussions with Tongans while in Tonga (including one of the Tongan Nobles).
I can kind of understand there being an issue with the joke 'The Mormons are buying Tonga', as that is the risk I take in doing the kind of irreverent public speaking I engage in - the pertinent reason I do that is to make the talk more interesting, more thought provoking and more memorable. At the same time, it was a single joke among many I am a little confused as to why the Mormons buying Tonga joke needed explanation, while the 'Chinese kid slaves make our reef equipment' jokes do not.

I should have replied to your original three questions differently, and I think if I would have, we would have avoided this tangent. Again, I am sorry I stepped on your toes with my offhand comment, and it was not my intention. I do appreciate the candid discussion, though, perhaps if there is more, we should respect the spirit of Jeremy's request and continue it via PM.

 

[Thales]

So about cardinals is it just the Bangai that reproduce? Or are there other species? Those blue eyed ones look kind of cool.

Its pretty much just the banggais that do the larval stage in the mouth of the father and appear in the water column as full fledged fish. That is what makes them so easy to raise. The leptocanthus, while the eggs are carried in the mouth, do have an external larval stage making raising them more difficult.

 

[Thales]

are there any fish which will can successfully spawn and have the young grow up in a normal aquarium, without having to do things like moving the babies to nets or specialized tanks etc?

Not really, its one of the things that is so frustrating about MO - they are just a lot of work.

 

[GreshamH]

IME clowns ship well, gobies and blennies (though there are some touchy species) Most damsels are pretty tough, sm. triggers ship well (if packed correctly) all the true groupers (not soapfish, not bettas etc...) ship ok. Tobies seem tough as nails too.

Depends on the clownfish. I say more tehn half the species fall under the "not a great shipper" catagory but that's just my experience in wholesale, your mileage may vary

 

[bookfish]

Interesting, which species do you recall having problems with and from what country of origin? Certainly the skunks are not as hardy as say a clarkii.

 

[GreshamH]

All but Oc and perc's are hard shippers IME and if they are handled poorly, they're poor shippers as well. The larger the clown, the harder it is to ship and keep alive.

I wish I would have kept numbers, it sure would make conversations like this much easier.

 

[Ibn]

Having a spreadsheet or some sort of statistics to back it up would be awesome. It would let us know what we can purchase with higher chances of survival rates and to avoid certain fish.

 

[GreshamH]

problem is that info tends to be highly proprietary as if used wrong it could hurt those that put it together (importers) especially if certain laws get passed

Check out Jay Hemdel's latest article in Advanced Aquarist Online. It's on this very subject

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/12/fish2

 

[Mr. Ugly]

are there any fish which will can successfully spawn and have the young grow up in a normal aquarium, without having to do things like moving the babies to nets or specialized tanks etc?

Could be possible with Histiophryne and Lophiocaron frogfish. They brood their young. If you provide enough rockwork, you might get some that escape being cannibalized.

Uberfugu(Bryan Gim) was able to hatch and raise a few Lophiocaron in a sump for a short period.

 

[Ibn]

Thanks for the link; actually a pretty good read.

The data in this table is a bit more difficult to interpret. It shows the 60 day survivorship of 120 fish and invertebrates of three groups; 32 control fish selected by an experienced aquarist for hardiness and proper handling and collection methods employed (no fish from Indonesia or the Philippines) versus 68 fish and 20 invertebrates from a shipment confiscated by the USFWS from a pet store that all originated from the Philippines or Indonesia. These were specimens sometimes termed "grade B SE Asian" - basically, fish that are smaller than normal for the trade, coming out of Jakarta, Cebu or Manila. Shipments of these types have a high percentage of "junk" fish that few dealers want; cleaner wrasse, tiny ocellaris clowns, green chromis, clown sweetlips, 1.5" bicolor angels, etc.

The data shows that of these "grade B" specimens, 57% of the confiscated fish and 30% of the confiscated invertebrates died within 60 days. Only 12% of the hand-selected fish and none of the hand selected invertebrates died during the same period, and in the same water systems. This shows that early mortality in wild caught marine specimens can be mitigated by preferentially acquiring them from better quality sources, and by avoiding certain species known to do poorly in captivity.