BAR Members Take On One @$%#* 250 Gal Tank !

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by gimmito, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    I watched one of their videos, specifically the VIVID AQUARIUMS TANK REPAIR one, and it concerned me about their technique of using their orbital sanders. The gentleman using the orbital sander was sanding only using the edge of it which is actually more damaging than using it flat with the surface. Using it that way creates an extremely uneven surface which can cause a wavy distorted view through the acrylic. Ideally you'd want to level it over a larger surface area to keep everything close in relative thickness. For those tough areas where there are really thick scratches, that's where spot-sanding treatment comes into play.

    Don't get me wrong, there are many ways to achieve the same result. However, I just wouldn't do it the way that's depicted in their video.
     
    bondolo and gimmito like this.
  2. tankguy

    tankguy Vice President

    anytime
     
  3. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

  4. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Thoughts is crazy. I'd have to see it to tell you for sure
     
  5. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I wouldn't use powered pumps to get water from the main tank to the sump, that's just asking for trouble. If the water can't normally flow then don't do it. The whole point of overflow is the return pump regulates how fast the water can come through, if you're using pumps to bring the water back they possibly could pull water out of the tank faster than the return can push it back.


    The main concern with what I see is some of that spa flex has low points, you shouldn't have your pipes go down and then back up.
     
  6. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Well....there's no plan B so I have to make it work. The plan is to control flow via ball valves.

    Yep. I'll have John redo the plumbing like the ridged pipe on the left.
     
  7. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Happy to swing by and advise...
     
  8. bluprntguy

    bluprntguy Webmaster

    FWIW, Building Code for the slope of sewer lines is 1/4" per foot, so I think you'd be fine if your lines were that flat (with rigid PVC). If you have 12" of fall, you should be able to go a good 50' and still have everything work. If it needs to be flatter, just upsize the pipe to the next larger size once it gets under the house so it can handle more water at the slower velocity.

    The real question is who gets to snake all that pipe in 6 months when all the crud starts to build up.
     
    gimmito likes this.
  9. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Mike...have you ever run into something like this ? You're always welcome to swing by.
     
  10. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Thanks for the info Philip. I think a test run is in order.
     
  11. Kmooresf

    Kmooresf Supporting Member

    Jim, maybe I'm crazy, but what about using a larger pipe for that section? Just to make it easier to flow? I believe you will have to use ridged pipe, but if it were me, I would make that section .5 to 1" larger in diameter to accommodate. Unless you are trying to get a full syphon overflow of coarse. Just a thought. It might run slower, but it will eventually stabalize and you may just need to add a little more water volume to get back to the level you want in the sump.

    I would not use pumps either. Just one more possible fail point. I'm working the next 3 days, but also willing to help out.......off monday if need me. Good luck.
     
    gimmito likes this.
  12. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    No offense Jim, but using pumps to move water on both sides is a way worse solution. 12" of drop should be fine. The pipes inside the overflow MAY need to be a little shorter than normal is all, the back pressure due to water height above the pipes will be more than sufficient... well unless you get a snail or something clogging the pipes like some people ;)

    Seriously, make sure you have at least 2 overflow pipes, make the main one lower so that it handles 100% of the flow, the second should only be used as an emergency, and you're good go.
     
  13. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Thanks for tbe input fellas. There are two 1 1/2" drains on the 250 and the 1" is for the return via the panworld 250ps. There's is a 12" drop from the tank under the house where the pipes are plumbed along the floor joists. The problem is where the addition is to where the garage is. There is a 12" upgrade back to the sump. I think there may be enough flow from the overflows to get there...just not a whole lot. I really didn't want to use extra pumps (more points of failure, electricity, cost, etc.).
    I also was thinking of having one drain flow directly to the sump and the other split off to feed the fuge and skimmer. Thoughts ?

    This project is truly turning into a group effort. :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  14. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

    Adding my $0.02! ;)

    If you are trying to get a full siphon, you might have startup issues. On the BeanAnimal thread in RC there are reports of issues trying to get the siphon started when there are horizontal sections of the drain pipe.

    Siphons are usually terminated just below the surface of the normal sump water level. Since the sump is in the garage you might want to end the drain higher so there won't be as much back pressure.

    In the second pic I notice there is a LARGE electrical cable left unsupported. While 'John the plumber' is under there it would be a good idea to lend some support to that cable.

    "This project is truly turning into a group effort" My favorite kind where some other John is crawling around under the house! My back hurts just looking at the pics! ;)
     
  15. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Thanks for the .02 cent John. ;) The roughed out pipes to the sump is the lowest I can go short of removing the 2x4 platform it is sitting on (which wouldn't make a that big of a difference IMHO + the garage floor is uneven).

    I'll secure the electrical myself. :p
     
  16. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Keep it coming fellas. ...I appreciate the brainstorming !
     
  17. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    I have the same issue with my plumbing.
    Drains go down, through wall, into garage, and back up to sump.
    End point to sump is only about 1 foot below my drains.
    Lowest point in plumbing is a good 2 feet below sump water level.

    Solution is simple :
    1) Oversize the pipe. Static water pressure will deal with ups and downs no problem.
    2) Put a drain at the low point on those pipes. Not required, but really helps if
    you want to clean pipe, or rebuild something.

    Tricky bonus : I ended up using that to make a silent overflow.
    I actually RAISED the sump outlet, so it is barely below the drain on my DT.
    That raised the water level in the overflow box, so much less noisy.
     
  18. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Mark- Are you suggesting upsizing to a 2" pipe for one or both drains ? Are there pics of this on your build thread ?
     
  19. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Both.
    Basically, if you do not have the head pressure to get the velocity up, you compensate by making the pipe bigger.

    Here you can see the pipes from the drains under the display tank. (Also some return pipes)
    I have 3 x 1.5" pipes. One for each overflow, and one emergency one.

    [​IMG]

    Here you can sort of see coming out the wall later, and back up to the sump.[​IMG]

    KEY: See the yellow pump.
    Just behind that, you can see how I raised up the two drain lines.
    The water level of the display tank is about 6 inches above that.

    The emergency drain is lower, not raised.
     
  20. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Thanks for the pics Mark. I'll upsize the drains from 1 1/2" to 2" for the long runs then downsize to 1 1/2" again at the sump.
     

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