Brown Algae in Refugium

[bluprntguy]

My last tank had a sump and refugium, but I used it for frags, so there was plenty of flow from a powerhead I put in there . This time I’m using the sump as a real refugium and have no additional flow.

There’s been a consistent brown algae on the walls and floor. I cleaned it off a few weeks ago, and it grew back pretty quickly. Is this normal for a refugium? I threw a few snails in there a few weeks ago, but they haven’t seemed to do much damage on the algae yet. I know I have some patches of Cyano in there, but I don’t think this is all Cyano.

Should I leave this as is? Is this pretty typical of a low flow refugium? Once the chaeto grows i assume it will block more of the light and make this less of an issue?

 

[ofzakaria]

Do algae disappear at night and come back during light on?
Do algae appear stringy, snot like or have bubbles?
If answer is yes to both you might be dealing with dino

 

[bluprntguy]

Do algae disappear at night and come back during light on?
Do algae appear stringy, snot like or have bubbles?
If answer is yes to both you might be dealing with dino

It doesn't disappear during the day when the refugium lights are off. There are some bubbles, but no stringy snot. There are more bubbles where the cyano is. It may just be a crap ton of cyano due to the low flow.

I did think about dinos, but didn't seem to fit the bill.

 

[ofzakaria]

Then it might be cyano. Cyano not alwayes red. There is brown cyano...
Only way to know for sure is to take a look at a sample under a microscope...do you have access to hobby grade microscope?
Whatd your
Po4, no3, ph and salinity?
What's your test kit?
What's your feeding habits?
What's your bio load?

 

[bluprntguy]

Do algae disappear at night and come back during light on?
Do algae appear stringy, snot like or have bubbles?
If answer is yes to both you might be dealing with dino

Then it might be cyano. Cyano not aleayes red. There is brown cyano...
Only way to know for sure is to take a look at a sample under a microscope...do you have access to hobby grade microscope?
Whatd your
Po4, no3, ph and salinity?
What's your test kit?
What's your feeding habits?
What's your bio load?

Forgot. Those would be helpful:
P04: 2 ppb (.006)
NO3: 2.5
PH: 8.2
Salinity: 35 ppt
Ca: 420
MG: 1480
Alk: 8

Hanna for PO4, API for NO3 and PH
Salinity is via Hanna salinity meter (AKA my favorite reef toy)
everything else is red sea tests.

Feeding is definitely higher than it should be. I feed around twice a day (three times if I'm around on the weekends) with a mixture of baby brine, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs and copepods since I added the mandarin. Although this issue existed before that, so I'm not sure we can blame it all on feeding.

Bioload is two small clowns, orchid dottyback, yellowline goby. an a baby mandarin that's 1" long max.

tank is 32 gallons. sump holds like 15.

 

[ofzakaria]

Forgot. Those would be helpful:
P04: 2 ppb (.006)
NO3: 2.5
PH: 8.2
Salinity: 35 ppt
Ca: 420
MG: 1480
Alk: 8

Hanna for PO4, API for NO3 and PH
Salinity is via Hanna salinity meter (AKA my favorite reef toy)
everything else is red sea tests.

Feeding is definitely higher than it should be. I feed around twice a day (three times if I'm around on the weekends) with a mixture of baby brine, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs and copepods since I added the mandarin. Although this issue existed before that, so I'm not sure we can blame it all on feeding.

Bioload is two small clowns, orchid dottyback, yellowline goby. an a baby mandarin that's 1" long max.

tank is 32 gallons. sump holds like 15.

Increase your po4 a bit or reduce your no3. If you do that algae will disappear.
If your parameters are correct, you have bad imbalances. Very low po4 but high no3.
At 0.006 ppb po4 your no3 should tune around o.o24 ppm or so.
My advice is to reduce your no3.

 

[bluprntguy]

Increase your po4 a bit or reduce your no3. If you do that algae will disappear.
If your parameters are correct, you have bad imbalances. Very low po4 but high no3.
At 0.006 ppb po4 your no3 should tune around o.o24 ppm or so.
My advice is to reduce your no3.

We must be talking about different things Nitrate is usually whole numbers. It's somewhere above zero but less than 5 on my test. I estimate 2.5. I don't think even the hanna ULR nitrite checker wouldn't be accurate enough for me to measure .024.

But yes, my phosphate has been incredibly low in this tank.

There is very little algae in the display. It's confined to the refugium, which is the point I guess.

But the real question I had was should I leave the algae in the refugium or continue to try to clean it out?

 

[ofzakaria]

We must be talking about different things Nitrate is usually whole numbers. It's somewhere above zero but less than 5 on my test. I estimate 2.5. I don't think even the hanna ULR nitrite checker wouldn't be accurate enough for me to measure .024.

But yes, my phosphate has been incredibly low in this tank.

There is very little algae in the display. It's confined to the refugium, which is the point I guess.

But the real question I had was should I leave the algae in the refugium or continue to try to clean it out?

No3 of 2.5 is high.
Depend on the test kit you can measure ultra low to zero.
I run no3 at 0.25 and I use redsea kit to measure.
As I said, either you increase po4 or decrease no3. I would decrease no3 by changing your feeding habits,
aggressive water change
Wetskim
use good carbon if you are not already.

 

[ofzakaria]

We must be talking about different things Nitrate is usually whole numbers. It's somewhere above zero but less than 5 on my test. I estimate 2.5. I don't think even the hanna ULR nitrite checker wouldn't be accurate enough for me to measure .024.

But yes, my phosphate has been incredibly low in this tank.

There is very little algae in the display. It's confined to the refugium, which is the point I guess.

But the real question I had was should I leave the algae in the refugium or continue to try to clean it out?

Oh and for the last queation, you want to remove such algae from your system. Display and sump..

 

[Chromis]

Have you looked at the algae in white light, sometimes everything looks like a different color in red/blue light.

Snails don’t eat chaeto so you could add or move some snails there to take care of the film algae until the chaeto takes off.

 

[bluprntguy]

Have you looked at the algae in white light, sometimes everything looks like a different color in red/blue light.

Snails don’t eat chaeto so you could add or move some snails there to take care of the film algae until the chaeto takes off.

That was a good idea. Apparently it’s actually green instead of brown. I’ve added a few snails down there and may move one of the trochus.

 

[ofzakaria]

That was a good idea. Apparently it’s actually green instead of brown. I’ve added a few snails down there and may move one of the trochus.

If its green algae snails and urchins will destroy it.
Also a tang or 2 in the system will keep green algae in check.

 

[JVU]

No3 of 2.5 is high.
Depend on the test kit you can measure ultra low to zero.
I run no3 at 0.25 and I use redsea kit to measure.
As I said, either you increase po4 or decrease no3. I would decrease no3 by changing your feeding habits,
aggressive water change
Wetskim
use good carbon if you are not already.

For most people, Nitrate of 2.5 is within their target range, not too high.

Having algae in your refugium and not in your tank is normal and expected, assuming the refug has good algae lighting and little or no algae grazers.

 

[ofzakaria]

For most people, Nitrate of 2.5 is within their target range, not too high.

Having algae in your refugium and not in your tank is normal and expected, assuming the refug has good algae lighting and little or no algae grazers.

Correct, but for those who target a range of no3 2.5 to 5, should target appropriate po4 as well..correct?
I have seen correlation between no3 to po4 ratio in my systems all the time. If I drop by po4 to zero while no3 is anything but, cyano jump in lol.
Also have read some literature about how dino thrive in high no3 low po4 waters...

I think that's one of the reasons why we can see good systems even with high po4. These systems have appropriate no3.
There is a tech talk rich Ross from about this and about his super high po4 tank.

What have happened since the introduction of gfo and low po4 no3 testers in the reefing industry, is that reefers remove all po4 using gfo but cannot reduce no3 as effectively so you end up with this imbalance. Reef start showing issues, reefer get confused thinking their po4 is so low it must be something else, or worst, double down on gfo to reduce po4 even further...

 

[Flagg37]

There is the redfield ratio which theorizes that you should keep them in a 16:1 ratio since that is what we find in marine organisms. I had previously tried to maintain it but was shown that many other well known systems do not follow it (not even close).

Adding herbivores will clean it but ultimately those nutrients stay in the system to come back. If manual removal is reasonable then I think that’s the best approach.

 

[ofzakaria]

There is the redfield ratio which theorizes that you should keep them in a 16:1 ratio since that is what we find in marine organisms. I had previously tried to maintain it but was shown that many other well known systems do not follow it (not even close).

Adding herbivores will clean it but ultimately those nutrients stay in the system to come back. If manual removal is reasonable then I think that’s the best approach.

Actually u do not like the refiled ratio. Cause I feel it's almost impossible to achieve in aquarium.
I follow bit simpler role.
If po4 is so low(lower than 0.2) target no3 lower than 1ppm.
And Visa versa

 

[JVU]

Back to the OP’s question-

A coating of green algae on an uncolonized surface exposed to algae-optimized light in the refugium without macroalgae to block the light or grazers is completely normal. Regardless of nutrient parameters.

The same process as “the uglies” on display rock in a new tank, and also to the algae that grows on glass in the display that we scrape off all the time. It’s the same thing, just presenting in a way we aren’t used to seeing because no one is normally trying to keep their lit refugium completely clean and empty.

 

[ofzakaria]

Back to the OP’s question-

A coating of green algae on an uncolonized surface exposed to algae-optimized light in the refugium without macroalgae to block the light or grazers is completely normal. Regardless of nutrient parameters.

The same process as “the uglies” on display rock in a new tank, and also to the algae that grows on glass in the display that we scrape off all the time. It’s the same thing, just presenting in a way we aren’t used to seeing because no one is normally trying to keep their lit refugium completely clean and empty.

Hmm. I have never ever had algae in my sump, not sure I would call this normal..
Yes during cycling or mini cycles phases green algae grow on rocks. Tangs, urchins and snails take care if that well until system is mature and algae phase pass.

but never in the sump without light. That's why I was wondering if it algae not bacteria something else. Algae needs light and nutrients.

I might be wrong..

 

[Flagg37]

Actually u do not like the refiled ratio. Cause I feel it's almost impossible to achieve in aquarium.
I follow bit simpler role.
If po4 is so low(lower than 0.2) target no3 lower than 1ppm.
And Visa versa

I think everyone has their own idea of what is high and low. The longer I’ve been reefing the more liberal I am with what I consider an acceptable range. If a new reefer was to ask me what they should shoot for I’d tell them less than 10 for no3 and less than .03 for po4 but let them know that this is a very loose recommendation. My first tank consistently sat around 40 for no3 and I didn’t even own a po4 test kit and I had minimal algae.

 

[ofzakaria]

I think everyone has their own idea of what is high and low. The longer I’ve been reefing the more liberal I am with what I consider an acceptable range. If a new reefer was to ask me what they should shoot for I’d tell them less than 10 for no3 and less than .03 for po4 but let them know that this is a very loose recommendation. My first tank consistently sat around 40 for no3 and I didn’t even own a po4 test kit and I had minimal algae.

Could not agree more ha ha.