Kessil

Controller Question

Really stupid question – what are controllers?

1) Are they just fancy timers? (I know they're more than that, but unsure of their capabilities)
2) Are they universal with all products? Or are you locked in to a brand?
3) What all does one need to start? Is it just a box with electrical plugs or do you need a “”power strip” to go with it? What are the different components available?
4) Good online reference for dummies to read?

I looked up some of the brand names mentioned in other threads and the information was from a sales POV and assumed you already knew about them. It was not designed to educate.

Maybe a good topic for a meeting.

-Gregory
 
Hey Greg,
I can't speak for other controllers, but I can talk about The Neptune Systems Apex unit. It is considered modestly priced and, flexible for expansion and somewhat simple to set up. Yes, it's a fancy timer among other things. In addition, it will track your temperature, ph and ORP. It comes with ph and temp probes. The Apex has a block of 8 timed outlets, two rows of 4. 6 of these are electronically controlled relays suitable for running lights, larger pumps and other medium/higher draw circuits. 2 of the outlets have mechanical relays and are suitable for any application including very light draw applications such as a Drew's dosing pump. If a Drew's pump is plugged into one of the electronic relay outlets, the relay is known to stick "on" and continue running after the controller tells it to turn off. A bad thing. he system may be expanded with additional timed blocks in blocks of 4 or 8. All components are connected with a common USB bus cable and most modules have extra bus i/o's for expansion.
In addition, for those folks that own MP-40w circulation pumps, a wireless module is available that will allow the Apex to bypass the stock controllers for the MP-40w's and allow programing of the different cycle modes ie wave crest, lagoon, pulse, constant, sync and anti-sync. throughout the day and evening. This is a huge benefit as it allows changing currents to minimize dead zones in the tank. The Controller unit connects to your home network and becomes accessible for programing via web based interface. This flows down to an application you can download to your iphone allowing viewing of historic ph, temp and ORP readings in a graph utility. It also will track power failures and can be programed to send you an e mail if certain critical parameters are exceeded such as tank temperature. The iphone ap (Aquanotes) will allow you to turn any of the circuits on and off as well as see temp, ph, ORP and which circuits are on or off.
 
Thanks John. Good info.

I looked up Neptune systems (one I didn't before) and it actually has good explinations on use and capabilities. Just what I needed.

-Gregory
 
1) Are they just fancy timers? (I know they're more than that, but unsure of their capabilities)
Well yes/no. Its kind of like saying a computer is just a fancy calculator. While yes there are timer functions, they also work off other logic commands, where as the timer function is simply an on/off based upon the clock, other functions involve on/offs on temperatures, pH, amongst other things, each controller is different in how they work. As an example, if your tank gets too hot, you can have it flip a fan on, and if it gets REALLY hot you could even have it turn the lights out.

2) Are they universal with all products? Or are you locked in to a brand?
For the most part they're universal, in that they really don't interact with the product proper. With some exceptions, what they mostly do is hook to a particular power strip (specific to the controller) and it turns on/off each plug as necessary by your programming.

3) What all does one need to start? Is it just a box with electrical plugs or do you need a “”power strip” to go with it? What are the different components available?
Depends upon the controller. However most (all?) work on the premise that there's a controlling unit (all the "brains") and a power strip of some sort that the controlling unit communicates with telling it what to turn on/off. Other differences include various probes, and the like. however what you need depends upon what you want to do. They can get simple or as complicated as you like.

4) Good online reference for dummies to read?
Eh, asking questions I find is the best way. Otherwise you'll be too wrapped up in consumer bias or fanboyism on various other boards. You can peak over at Digital Aquatics and look at their Reef Keeper systems or Neptune's Apex/Aquacontroller systems as those are two of the more popular ones out there, and just get some ideas at what they cost, what packages come with etc.
 
Thanks Mike...I had looked up Reef Keeper previously and found them hard to read...that they assumed you already know what they were talking about. I've re-read them and now they make sense.

Down the line (when I'm employed again) this looks like the way to go. Does anyone make a Ca/Alk/Mg monitors that can control dowsing pumps?

-Gregory
 
CA/ALK/MG probes are pretty useless. That is the wrong method to test them.
 
what gresham said... basically using a controller allows you to get dosing accuracy down to the minute which is useful compared to older mechanical timers (where who cares if your lights turn off 15 minutes later), of course there are doses like the bubble magus that have a timer built into them for those reasons (I really hate using two plugs on my controller for my dosing)
 
To add to that (dont' feel like hitting the edit button) your controller will probably be best used to monitor temperature and pH. Even if you don't have a calcium reactor the sign of falling pH (or rising) can help clue you in something is going wrong. Especially for controllers which allow you to save data over time and graph it out.
 
sfsuphysics said:
To add to that (dont' feel like hitting the edit button) your controller will probably be best used to monitor temperature and pH. Even if you don't have a calcium reactor the sign of falling pH (or rising) can help clue you in something is going wrong. Especially for controllers which allow you to save data over time and graph it out.

Logging is one of the best things I have found about having a controller. Being able to see the last month of pH and temp can give a better idea of how things are progressing.

Reeftronics is a great site that does some neat things. Here is a link to my tank status for the last 30 days. Only logging temp, amp and ph. You can see when I last calibrated my pH probe by the large spike. :)
http://www.reeftronics.net/greg-w/apex-history
 
screebo said:
If a Drew's pump is plugged into one of the electronic relay outlets, the relay is known to stick "on" and continue running after the controller tells it to turn off.

The fix for that issue is to use a small night light plugged into the same outlet. When the dosing pump comes on the light comes on and the extra current that the light draws should ensure that the switch turns off. I use a cheap LED night lite from ikea with my aqualifter top off pump. Nice part is if the float switch gets stuck I can tell because the light is on.


edit:
This is a good source of info for the apex unit. The unoffical user guide is really pretty good and was recently updated with the new firmware release.
http://reeftech.webs.com/
 
r0ck0 said:
screebo said:
If a Drew's pump is plugged into one of the electronic relay outlets, the relay is known to stick "on" and continue running after the controller tells it to turn off.

The fix for that issue is to use a small night light plugged into the same outlet. When the dosing pump comes on the light comes on and the extra current that the light draws should ensure that the switch turns off. I use a cheap LED night lite from ikea with my aqualifter top off pump. Nice part is if the float switch gets stuck I can tell because the light is on.


edit:
This is a good source of info for the apex unit. The unoffical user guide is really pretty good and was recently updated with the new firmware release.

That is bull#&@^ you have to take extra steps to make sure your relay turns off. You agree it's bull#&@^ right?
 
screebo said:
Great info here. As far as we know, do you still have to completely reprogram the Apex when updating it's firmware?

Nope, simple process, flash firmware, upload new webpages, profit.
 
houser said:
r0ck0 said:
screebo said:
If a Drew's pump is plugged into one of the electronic relay outlets, the relay is known to stick "on" and continue running after the controller tells it to turn off.

The fix for that issue is to use a small night light plugged into the same outlet. When the dosing pump comes on the light comes on and the extra current that the light draws should ensure that the switch turns off. I use a cheap LED night lite from ikea with my aqualifter top off pump. Nice part is if the float switch gets stuck I can tell because the light is on.


edit:
This is a good source of info for the apex unit. The unoffical user guide is really pretty good and was recently updated with the new firmware release.

That is bull#&@^ you have to take extra steps to make sure your relay turns off. You agree it's bull#&@^ right?

Well ya of course it should just work. Look on the bright side, the extra light is a nice indicator that the pump is running, also the loud clicking of the relay is soothing.
 
IIRC this is also an issue for DA PC4's also. The work around is to use the relay outlets. But kenargo's unofficial user guide is better than the Neptune and those guys over at the RC board really help you you out.
 
I got graphs for my controller too, but they only show 24hrs.
Temperature 1
graph.aspx

Temperature 2
graph.aspx

pH
graph.aspx

Relays
graph.aspx
 
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