Denzil's 40B with 20L Sump-Fuge

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by denzil, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    I know what you mean about tacky but I would have hard time passing that up because of the simplicity and having easy access to the area underneath the ATO vat. You can always close the door and hide the tacky :)
     
  2. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Just thought of something... maybe cut up some plywood "trim" pieces to skin around it. :)
     
  3. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Hey Charlie, I reached out to The Molding Company and this is the response that I got:
    I guess I'm going to go to Home Depot!
     
  4. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    What did you ask for when you called? You need to ask for 3/4" or 1/2" shop grade plywood. Which store did you call? I'll call Concord and see if I can get a part number or item number for the material I use. That might help.
     
  5. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    You do want to get the 2x4s from Home Depot. The Moulding Company only gets into sheet goods in addition to molding for the most part.

    You called these guys, yes? http://www.themouldingcompany.com/
     
  6. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    OK, ask for "Shop Grade Maple", not Birch. The 3/4" runs roughly $44.20/sheet. They have 1/2" Maple but it's a step up from shop or paint grade and it runs around $54/sheet. That's better quality than you need if you plan on painting the stand. They do have a 1/2" shop grade Birch that's almost as good as the Maple for $33/sheet. That's what you want to go with if you're going to paint it.

    I called the Concord store at (925) 798-7525. Tell them that you were quoted those prices over the phone and that includes a 15% discount when you go to pick it up.

    ~Charlie
     
  7. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

    D,

    Can I come video you putting a sheet of ply in the Prius? ;)
     
  8. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Ok, I'll ask for the "Shop Grade Maple." How large are these ply sheets? LoL.

    I plan on sealing the entire stand with something that's waterproof, maybe deck sealer? However, as for the exterior, I really like the ADA look so I was thinking of skinning the ply sheets with Formica or something similar. I guess it doesn't really matter too much what ply I get? I should be fine with 1/2" ply all around where I plan on putting it?
    Hah! Once I find out how large these sheets are!
     
  9. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    4' x 8' is standard
     
  10. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Doing it with one sheet will be really close so I think I'm just going to pick up two sheets.

    Cut one to 3.5' x 4' and the other to 4.5' x 4'.

    3.25' x 4'
    [list type=decimal]
    [*]Front skin with cut out center (28.5" x 28.5")
    [*]Bottom platform using remains from cut out front-center


    4.75' x 4'


    Two 18" x 36" sides
    One 18" x 28.5" internal side
    [/list type=decimal]

    Bottom - 3' x 1.5' with corner cutouts

    I'm sure these numbers will change as I'm thinking of implementing a sliding bottom platform on a rail system (if it's feasible for a 20L). Ideally, I'd have it slight forward/outward for cases in where maintenance is required. It will probably require additional 2' x 4's at the bottom to support the rail system in addition to small rail cutouts for the rails to slide outward. I'd just have to make sure the doors are large enough to hide these cutouts when the doors are closed.
     
  11. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Just realized that I won't be able to have the sump-fuge slide out (forward) unless I make the stand a couple inches longer. However, I can definitely slide it out (left) no problem. The only concern would be if the rails would be able to support it. The bottom center support orientation would probably have to change as well.

    I'm thinking I just might do away with the rails system completely if I don't figure out a neat/tidy solution.
     
  12. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    For slides check out Rockler: http://woodworking.rockler.com/c/hardware They have a shop in Pleasant Hill just around the corner from All About Fish in the same shopping center.

    The plywood is 48.5" x 96.5" or 49 x 97 I think. It's over-sized but I just can't remember what the exact dimensions are. 1/2 should be fine and I would go with the cheaper Birch if you're going to skin it.

    If you get in a bind, I can meet you at the Concord location and take it back to my place in Oakley and help you cut it down. By the time you factor in the fuel and time you might be better off finding a source closer to where you are going to build though. Even if it might be a few bucks more expensive. If you're going to put a veneer on it you just want a nice, smooth surface. The HD good on one side stuff should work.

    ~Charlie
     
  13. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Yeah, sliding leftward is just not as ideal for me as frontward. I really, really want this feature and I think I can get it done. I'll definitely see if I can source the ply from The Molding Company's Santa Clara branch. I'll have to give them a call later today.

    From looking at Rockler's website, I think these are the most cost effective ($122.99): http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1491&site=ROCKLER

    I guess my stand won't be as cheap as I thought it could be but damn, at least I'll have a nice looking and very functional tank stand. :)
     
  14. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    How many pounds are you estimating will be on the slides? They also have http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=31305&site=ROCKLER that will do 220 lbs. If you have to go with the more expensive slide do you think you're going to benefit enough from that feature to make it worth your while? I definitely like the idea but I'm just not sure how much I'd actually use it if I had it in there.
     
  15. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Yeah, that's a more ideal solution. I just didn't look hard enough. Thanks! :)
     
  16. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    20 gallons of saltwater alone will run ~ 175 pounds, plus tank, plus wood shelf, plumbing, pumps, etc, I'd expect this to come closer to 200 pounds (if not more), which is only 20 pounds from the load rating... that would worry me. The other unit he linked does 500 pounds:

    http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000095AA.pdf

    They do have carburized steel bearings so rust will be an issue if not cared for (think of how to keep salt creep out, and from falling into the slides. Finding ones with sealed bearing probably would jump the cost quite a bit.

    FWIW there is a Wood Craft just down the street from Aqua Exotic: http://www.woodcraft.com/stores/store.aspx?id=561

    http://www.woodcraft.com/category/1002229/drawer--table-slides.aspx
     
  17. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

    Do you really want to be sliding out a full tank of water? Seems like there would be lots of slosh potential. I'd also be worried about what stresses are applied to the tank/sump when the water goes to and fro.

    Everything BAYMAC said about rust is correct. Also figure the slides take up at least one inch of space side to side and are at least one inch tall.

    I would not worry going over the rated weight by 10% or so. These are tough and are rated for the weight at full extension and thousands of cycles. You could have a spacer ready to support the leading edge while it's fully extended.

    If you could get the weight down to below 100 lbs. (10 g. water + bits and pieces), the slides are only about $15 at places like cabinetparts.com.

    Also some sort of positive containment would be good. You don't want the sump to come flying out during the next temblor. :)
     
  18. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    I never approach full safety ratings and have been advised by structural engineers this is good practice ;) I do the same with rope ratings, etc.
     
  19. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Yeah, I wasn't really too worried about the load considering that it would most likely not be filled to the brim. The only factors worth considering are how much sand and LR I plan on putting down there along with the skimmer. However, it certainly wouldn't hurt to invest a little more for some peace of mind.

    Sealed bearings is definitely the way to go. While I don't plan on spilling water on the rails, it will inevitably happen at some point.
    The answer to your question... YES! :)

    There's certainly a lot of potential for sloshing but the sloshing is dependent on the user. :) I imagine the sliding mechanism won't be so fluid due to the weight being imposed on the slide rails. I can't imagine exceeding a thousand cycles. As far as support on the leading edge and positive containment, perhaps I'll have something attached that folds outward. I'll just have to be sure there are the necessary cutouts in the bottom frame (which should be pretty minimal). Another thought is having magnets at the rear of the platform to add some additional positive containment.
    Yeah, it's always safe to be overly cautious but as an engineer myself, we tend to generally overbuild things... just about everything. :)
     
  20. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    I built a "slideout" sump. It's documented on Norcal Reef Club.

    I've copied over the DIY instructions onto BAR. There are calculations and "wood cutting" instructions.
    http://www.bareefers.org/home/node/15418?page=2#comment-191487
     

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