got ethical husbandry?

Finally upgrading! Input on how to do it right please?

I will be moving at the end of the summer and I'm going to consolidate my 28g and 14g into a 40 gallon breeder. Now in the planning stages I want to make sure I do everything right and I have a lot of questions.

Here are the plans so far:

40b1.jpg


40b2.jpg


40b3.jpg


40b4.jpg


The "fish corner" as I'm calling it, is at the end of a hallway in an area originally designed for what I think is a small office area. Next to the short wall is the door to the bathroom. The 10g tank is there just for scale.

What I would really like to do is have a single slightly smaller tank underneath the stand that acts as a sump/refugium/frag tank. I would T off the overflow having the bulk of water enter on one side of that combo tank and have the other side ball valve controlled to let slightly less water enter on the other side of the tank where the frag rack would be. I think I could maybe even fit two tanks underneath, having the frag tank sit higher than the sump/refuge and gravity feed down to the refuge to late be pumped back up to the top. (I'm working on that Google model now, I'm doubtful I can actually make all that fit but am going to try and draw it out anyways.) The stand height is not set in stone so I guess I want to see how much taller it would have to be to accomplish this.

On to the questions:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Based on the pictures (to scale) it's going to be a tight fit. I can't really view from the sides of the tank but I guess that's no different than having an in wall tank, right?
[*]For the overflow, what's the difference between something like a glass holes overflow versus an overflow drilled through the bottom of the tank? Is one more preferable than the other for reasons besides aesthetics?
The floor is carpeting, any concerns there? The GF says she would prefer some type of basin under the tank just in case water is spilled. Is there anyway to accomplish that?
I want to go with T5's for this tank (price, more eco-friendly, etc...), what kind of lighting would you suggest? Would a 4 bulb cut it or would I need at least 6-8 bulbs for SPS? I have a 20" 150w sunpod right now that could run the width of the tank, I'm thinking there is no way that would work on the tank
[/list type=decimal]

That's it for now, I'm sure there will be a lot more questions later. I really appreciate any input.

Thanks much!
Jay
 
although it looks bad I would put a plastic water proof liner or extra floor rug under the tank. You know water will hit the floor, and you don't want mold or smelly carpet.

Can you rotate the tank so its against the right side wall? I see a window will there be sunlight coming in? Do you have enough power running in that room.

If you can I would do a 3x2x2 - 90 gallons or maybe do a corner tank in that location.
 
Apon said:
although it looks bad I would put a plastic water proof liner or extra floor rug under the tank. You know water will hit the floor, and you don't want mold or smelly carpet.

Can you rotate the tank so its against the right side wall? I see a window will there be sunlight coming in? Do you have enough power running in that room.

If you can I would do a 3x2x2 - 90 gallons or maybe do a corner tank in that location.

Yea, I'm really concerned about the rug under it. I ran the idea by the GF about pulling up some rug up until the bathroom and putting some tile or some other water proof flooring and she was pretty receptive. Her dad is super handy and I'm sure he could do it with me.

When you say rotate the tank so it's against the right side wall do you mean the left side (looking at the first picture posted?) Not where the built in bench is? Like having the long side run against the left wall opposite the bench? If so, I'm concerned the plumbing would ugly all exposed when looking down the hall (Assuming I run plumbing outside on the back of the tank.)

I just checked the receptacle and it's only a 15amp, not running halides do you think it would be ok?

The window is south facing so no sunlight gets in there.

Unfortunately this is the biggest tank I can work with without World War 3 and bankrupting me... :(

Thanks for the input!
 
As for inside the stand and the two tanks, here is what I came up with:

Kind of crazy, don't think it would all fit in there but here's what it would sort of look like.

40b5.jpg


The higher tank being the 10g frag tank, that's a 20" sunpod mounted to the top of the stand, giving about 5" of hand clearance between it and the tank. Major problem I see would be changing the filter sock out right where it says "20 Long"....

Any thoughts? I am crazy?


Also, here is the area in real pictures:
DSC04393.JPG

DSC04394.JPG

The picture above shows where the tank would sit with a 40" stand, it's a bit to high as don't want to cover the window with the light bars.


Please excuse the mess, did some re-organizing today and needed somewhere to dump all that stuff.
 
I meant getting rid of the bench....then the tank would share the bathroom wall. maybe even drill a hole in there...unless you rent.

add up your electronics and check if the circiut is shared any where else in the room.
 
Jay the window behind my tank faces south and light pours in there all winter. In summer the sun swings so high that it misses coming in for several months.

I also have the tank stand with flat wood bottom on carpet. I am very glad I raised the stand on slats about an inch around the outer edge where the weight of the tank comes down the stand. Enough water has spilled twice to wet the carpet under the tank and a fan dries it out. Carpet sucks for sure. No telling what stains it will have under the slats when the tanks goes.

I will pull the next tank out from the wall more so I can see all sides better.
 
Arnold, wow... I don't know why I didn't think of just putting the tank in that cubby hole... Now that I think of it, I wonder if we could just reinforce the bench that is there and use that as a stand... Not only that I don't have to worry about the height of the light, it looks much less ackward, etc... I just wonder how I would get the plumbing through. Convincing the GF to drill holes in that bench might be difficult... Also, could cabinet doors be added that existing bench? Maybe frame it out a little bit and install some doors?

Here's what it would look like:
40b6.jpg


40b7.jpg


Richard, good thinking! I like the idea of raising it up off the carpet so you can dry it up when something spills. As for the sun, that's nothing a curtain couldn't stop right?

Thanks, this is exactly what I'm looking for.
 
1. You might not like the look of the tank where it is. If you're going to compare it to an inwall setup why not bring the front flush with the "doorway" wall, and if you need space to get in (which it looks like won't be terribly different than with that flat panel that's in your first drawing, you can always move the tank closer to the wall, unless you want the access on that side for a magnetic scraper or somthing. The idea I'm guessing is you want to see the tank without having to work at seeing it, that's to say you can see it from anywhere in the room, your current setup looks like you have to walk into a closet just to see the tank.



2. A horizontal faced overflow (drilling the back), moves WAY less water than a vertically faced overflow (bottom drilled), it's not as simple as the same size hole moves the same water, there's some funky hydrodynamics involved the pressure of the water on top, and all that junk. Basically you can get away with smaller holes on the bottom as a result. Now does this really make a difference? Well depends upon what your return rate is, if you have a small return then you can get away with a back drilled tank no problem. Also bottom drilled tends to allow you more room to put in some standpipe or what not to potentially silence the sound of water.

3. You could do a basin, however there's really no way of not making it visible, you can make a basin in the tank stand if you're worried about that water, but most of my spills/drips come from my arm going in and out of the tank. Also you'd need the stand up a bit, if you put the whole stand in the basin, because the last thing you want is the bottom of your tank sitting in water you can't clean up. I would suggest simply making it a habit of putting some towels on the floor whenever you put your arm in the tank, that should handle any "work leakage".

4. 4-T5s should be fine for a breeder, as they're not terribly tall. If you're really concerned and haven't bought the lights yet, you could always do a 6 bulb setup. Not sure an 8 bulb setup could get over a 40-breeder (at least one with decent reflectors).
 
Looks like I am going to have to put it in that cubby hole...

That being the case I pretty much have to do the overflow and returns through the bottom of the tank because real estate is tight behind the tank.

1. Do you use just a regular old bulkhead for bottom drilled tanks?
2. What size should I get?
3. For the return, would 1 suffice?
4. How tall should the return be in the tank and how big?? Should it be just tall enough so the siphon is broken should the power go out? I know I've seen tanks where the returns are mid level in the tank but that worries me if there is a power outage. Are check valves that reliable?
5. Where should I place it the return('s) in the tank? Opposite the overflow?

6. I want to paint the back of the tank black. Any tips? What kind of paint, etc??
7. Anyone want to help me drill this puppy when the time comes? I've never drilled glass and am kind of scared.


While all that is getting figured out, we have a handy friend coming in to take a look at the existing shelf to see if it can be re-enforced, framed out and made into a cabinet. He will also be checking out the floor in that area to see if we can lay down some tile.

Thanks again for all the help!
 
1. Do you use just a regular old bulkhead for bottom drilled tanks?
They work fine, as long as they're inside of a cavity (overflow box) you can always remove them if they leak and replace them. However make sure you have access to install/remove them. If this is an off the shelf tank though, just make sure the bottom isn't tempered

2. What size should I get?
Depends how much flow you want to move from your sump to the tank, and more importantly how much room is in your overflow box. 1.5" would most likely be way overkill, 1" probably just right unless you move a lot of water between your sump and tank.

3. For the return, would 1 suffice?
1 could suffice assuming it's sized correctly, however 2 is useful for that just in case emergency bit.

4. How tall should the return be in the tank and how big?? Should it be just tall enough so the siphon is broken should the power go out? I know I've seen tanks where the returns are mid level in the tank but that worries me if there is a power outage. Are check valves that reliable?
I would go high myself, check valves can work, but they need regular cleaning to stay working, it's very easy to get lazy with that maintenance too.

5. Where should I place it the return('s) in the tank? Opposite the overflow?
Shouldn't really matter, having them on opposite sides does allow you to "push" the water near the surface towards your overflow as long as the return isn't an integral part of your tank water movement (i.e. you're pumps are adequate in the tank). However many people simply due to the design of the tank have the return on the same side as the overflow (often coming out of the overflow box!)

6. I want to paint the back of the tank black. Any tips? What kind of paint, etc??
If it's the outside shouldn't make a big whoop, Krylon fusion is often recommended for some reason (sticks better to glass?). Need to think about if you'll want to keep the back glass clean and how you'll do that though. An acrylic insert could work, and you can always remove it at your leisure to clean outside the tank.

7. Anyone want to help me drill this puppy when the time comes? I've never drilled glass and am kind of scared.
Hahah, sorry man I don't have any drill bits, nor a drill press. Just remember what I said about being tempered :D
 
Thanks Mike!

The 40 breeders are not tempered, already checked that out.

1. I think I will do 2 returns but, when I do that do I just t-off the return pump or do I use two smaller pumps? I'm lazy so I will go with the fool proof break siphon method for the returns.

2. Any places locally sell black PVC pipe? TAP does not and the dude wasn't sure where I could get it. I called a few places in the East Bay and all they carry is dark gray SCHEDULE 80 pipe.

3. Assuming I did a 1" overflow, would that mean I should use 2 .75" returns? I guess I have to factor in what I would use for a return pump etc... Dealing with T's and reducers and all that fun stuff...

Thanks again!
 
1. I think I will do 2 returns but, when I do that do I just t-off the return pump or do I use two smaller pumps? I'm lazy so I will go with the fool proof break siphon method for the returns.
I think you could do either, smaller pumps will use twice as many outlets though if that is a concern. But there's always the backup if one fails you'll still have a return. I've seen people tee off returns too. Now what you don't want to do is tee two pumps into one return pipe :D

2. Any places locally sell black PVC pipe? TAP does not and the dude wasn't sure where I could get it. I called a few places in the East Bay and all they carry is dark gray SCHEDULE 80 pipe.
Black for looks or something else? You could do krylon fusion and turn them black if it's an looks thing. But unfortunately I don't know where black PVC would be sold.

3. Assuming I did a 1" overflow, would that mean I should use 2 .75" returns? I guess I have to factor in what I would use for a return pump etc... Dealing with T's and reducers and all that fun stuff...
The size of the return pipes is irrelevant, it's the pumps which will dictate how much water goes into the tank. If you make smaller returns you'll get less flow (more head pressure), but it'll be a bit more concentrated (i.e. shoots into the tank more). As to the overflow, I forget the numbers now, but if you're running anywhere near the output of the return (which only works via gravity/heat pressure) then you'll most likely want to double up, make one slightly higher than the other "just in case"... you want more flows and opt for a bigger pump but forget your overflow capacity (yeah I'm guilty of that :D), or for whatever reason something clogs up the pipe (snail, fish, algae). Etc.
 
Black for looks, never liked the way regular old white PVC looked like in a tank, especially if the returns are going to be semi visible in the tank. I'll just use the gray SCH80 pipe, hopefully it will being coralline encrusted in short time.
 
Maybe you can use black loc-line for the part of your return that will be in the tank; though depending on how much of your return line you plan to have exposed in the tank, PVC may look better .
 
Good thinking Anthony, maybe if I do 2 3/4" returns? Would that be enough flow back into the tank? If the rule is the overflow 2x the size of the returns then I should probably do a 1.5" overflow.
 
Really mike?

.75 + .75 = 1.5 ?
Is .75" = 3/4" ?
I'm confused?

Picked up the tank this weekend, thanks Eight!
Also, the GF's dad came by to take measurements, etc... He's picking some plywood and 2x4's this week to start building the stand out. Now I need to find the same tile the rest of the place has in it... Wish me luck.
 
cross sectional area of a pipe is dictated by it's diameter squared, not just the linear addition.

Area = d^2 * pi/4

So 2 x d1^2 = d2 ^2

2 x 3/4^2 = 18/16 = d2 ^2 = 1.06" diameter equiv... (a bit over 1 inch.. I originally said 1 1/8... my mind wasn't working :D)

If you want the equivalent of 1.5" piping with 2 pipes.

1.5" ^2 = 2 x d ^2

2.25 / 2 = d ^2

d = 1.06" so you basically would need two pipes just over 1" to equal the same area as a single 1.5" pipe... and then it gets even more complicated because of more surface area inside the pipe per volume of water you reduce your flow that much more. Which is why I like going with a 1.5" drain from the get go.
 
I am sure you have checked, but since you have a glass tank make sure that cuby shelf is leveled.....is that still the plan?
 
Wow Mike, uhm, way over my head but thank you for the help!

Arnold,
What were going to do now is just totally remove that cubby hole shelf. It's made of particle board and is already bowing down so that's gone. Basically were going to build a cabinet and slide it right in there not relying on the wall for any load bearing, down the line I'm thinking we should attach it to a couple of studs in the wall for some earthquake proofing. The stand is going to ... stand ... about 30" high, which is pretty tall but, I'd really like to have as much room under there as possible for reefing gadgets and stuff.
 
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