Fritz salt

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry' started by Edgar Sandoval, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. Ibn

    Ibn Supporting Member

    Have you tried using a different alk tester to confirm that? See if you can confirm that figure against a titration test, such as the Salifert one.
     
  2. Gablami

    Gablami Supporting Member

    I emailed them some of our questions. Will let you know if I get response.

    Ibn, I'll double check with my Red Sea pro kit later and report back.


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  3. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Mag drive pump does put out quite a bit of heat. No experience w fritz salt, but mag drives get hot. I imagine that would be more if an issue if anything than high flow.
     
  4. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    When I finished my first 55 gallon batch I noticed some "sludge" in the bottom. For that batch I only left the pump in it overnight when I mixed it. After that batch I left the pump in circulating 24/7 and haven't see any of the "sludge".

    I've not tested the alk of the mixed batches but I did a 25% water change a few weeks ago and the tank's alk stayed at an expected level.
     
  5. scuzy

    scuzy Supporting Member

    I keep a maxijet spinning in mine and don't notice any precipitation and low alk.


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  6. Gablami

    Gablami Supporting Member

    I just received a response. I asked:
    Many of my fellow reefers and I in the California Bay Area use Fritz RPM. We have some questions about storing the mixed salt water.

    After mixing according to the product's instructions, I have been leaving it in the container with a powerhead running, with no heater. Some have noticed that without the powerhead, the water will become cloudy again with a powdery precipitate on the pumps.

    Another concern we have is the gradual reduction of alkalinity over time. Initially the RPM seems to mix to ~7.5-8 dkh, but I checked yesterday after a week in storage with the pump running, and the dkh was down to 6.4.

    Could you give us some insight into these questions, and your recommendation on how to best store larger amounts of mixed salt water (50g+) for several weeks at a time? I will be posting your reply back to our forums.

    ~~~

    Here is the response from Andy, technical sales manager for Fritz:

    Hi Gabe,

    Sorry for the delayed reply. I wanted to get the input of everyone on the Fritz team since this would be shared online.

    First, thank you very much for choosing to use the Fritz Reef Pro Mix salt; we are hobbyists ourselves and we really appreciate the fact that you guys are fans of our product.

    We have heard sporadic reports of alkalinity loss over time in stored mixes of the Fritz Reef Pro Mix salt. There have also been some, but far fewer, incidents of cloudiness and precipitation. One way we are addressing this is with the directions on the new packaging which are specific for the high parameter mix that makes up Fritz Aquatics RPM salt:

    MIXING DIRECTIONS
    For best results it is important to follow proper mixing instructions when using salt with elevated parameters like Fritz Aquatics Reef Pro Mix. See below for best practices when using RPM.

    When Mixing Fritz Reef Pro Mix , it is best to use RO/DI water quality checked by a TDS meter (TDS should be less than 10ppm, 0 is preferred). Fill a clean mixing container (dedicated to saltwater mixing only) with desired amount of water to be prepared. For best results use water between 70° – 75°F (21° – 24°C) when mixing RPM. Slowly add desired amount of RPM to the water to avoid an increase in temperature and precipitation. This helps to prevent precipitation of calcium, alkalinity and other elements. It is recommended to use a mixing pump and an airstone when mixing RPM. This will also help to avoid concentrated areas of material and precipitation. Using a properly calibrated refractometer, bring the water to the desired salinity. Once mixed to a clear solution, add a heater to the water to bring to the current temperature of your aquarium. It is recommended to allow two hours before performing a water change. If water does not mix clear, please contact us for further mixing tips before performing a water change.

    DO NOT MIX DRY SALT DIRECTLY INTO SYSTEMS WITH LIVESTOCK PRESENT!

    CAUTION: Keep out of reach of children. Not for human consumption. Generates slight heat when added to water; avoid handling with wet hands. Contact with dry powder may cause skin and/or eye irritation. In case of contact, flush eyes with cool water and seek immediate medical attention.

    Storage: Store in a cool, dry place. Keep product tightly sealed.

    Additionally, we are actively involved in researching and responding to this but it has not been a straightforward process. For each 2,000lb lot we manufacture we pull two samples at different points in the dispensing from the blender. Those are subject to QC testing before we package. Our standard QC test looks like the following:

    <image001.png>

    If the salt does not meet our specifications at this time, it is not packaged. If it does, we package and ship the salt. To the best of my knowledge we have the strictest QC in the industry.

    When we are contacted saying there is a loss of alkalinity or precipitation we work with the customer to ascertain if anything on their end has contributed to this. Because our salt is on the high end of the critical parameters it really needs to be used with purified water. Many issues are resolved when it is shown that the mix water has a starting alkalinity of 5 or higher dKH. Other issues have been traced to mix containers having a layer (sometimes virtually invisible) of the previous sea salt inside. If calcium coats the walls of the mix container and Reef Pro Mix is added alkalinity will drop as insoluble calcium carbonate falls out of solution.

    Additionally we recommend checking the alkalinity, pH and TDS. In some cases carbon dioxide can build up resulting in lower pH which can erode alkalinity. You want a neutral pH, no measurable alkalinity and 0 TDS. However, at this time we don’t have data to indicate the frequency of this arising as an issue.

    In rare cases, the concern is not resolved at that step. Right now we have a few situations like that we are exploring. What is puzzling is that in our laboratory with the retain samples from that specific lot, we have not been able to reproduce what the customer is reporting. Our mixes are not going cloudy and the alkalinity is remaining stable over several days. We have done testing where we selected random lots and pulled over a dozen samples per lot to see if blending is consistent and it is – variations of about 15 ppm in Calcium and 30 ppm in Magnesium are common over an entire lot. Alkalinity is a little more fluid, we do see differences of up to 0.5 dKH in a single lot.

    We’re now in the process of getting salt and sample mix water with and without salt from affected consumers to analyze. This process will take a bit of time.

    Even though the customer contacts received to date represent less than 0.00004% of the salt sold, we are committed to addressing them and either resolving the customer’s issue at their end or ours so that all users of Fritz ProAquatics Reef Pro Mix achieve the best results possible in their reef.


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  7. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Nice response. I'm guessing maybe co2 is the culprit? Best to aerate your water for awhile after making and before mixing.
     
  8. scuzy

    scuzy Supporting Member

    Probably reason I never noticed cause I fill my mix bucket from outside during the fill it makes lots of air. Then I dump the salt in.


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  9. Chromis

    Chromis Guest

    My Fritz mix took between 12-24 hours to reach 8.4 dKH but my latest batch, which also measured 8.4, stayed at 8.4 alk for 5 days until I used it. Maybe the difference is I mix in an open container in a cool garage.


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  10. JVU

    JVU Supporting Member

    I always thought the fine dusting over the inside of the mixing can and equipment that develops after a couple days was bacterial, universal, and not harmful. I use RO/DI water with 0 ppm and IO Reef Crystals. I usually (but not always) have a heater and power head going, and the power head delays it maybe, but the fine dust develops either way if I don't use it within a couple days.

    I confess I never checked parameters on the water before and after sitting. So I can't address the important alkalinity concern, but it doesn't seem like precipitate to me. Though either bacteria or precipitation could cause levels to drop. Or equilibration with room air with it's extra CO2? Maybe what is happening with the Fritz salt is different, but it sounds pretty similar from Gabe's description.


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  11. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Yeah...
    I get tempted to switch to a premium salt now and then.
    But the thought passes, especially after threads like this, and I end up sticking to simple instant ocean.
    Cheaper, no mixing hassles, no issues sitting long term in a tank.
    Ok, less Calcium ... so I turn up the doser a notch. Yawn.
    :)
     
  12. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    The problem I always see with IO and RC is inconsistency in the parameters from one batch to the next sometimes even in the same box.
     
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  13. scuzy

    scuzy Supporting Member


    Also that brown sludge


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  14. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Standard IO or Reef Crystals?

    Consistency between batches has always been one of the biggest plusses about IO in my mind.
    But I use standard instant ocean, not reef crystals, and always dump the entire 50G bag when mixing.
    I go through several boxes a year.

    I have heard of problems with reef crystals, especially the buckets if you only use part of the mix. Content settling issues.
     
  15. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Interesting that others have such issues with IO.

    I have a white salt water storage tank. Probably been a year or so since it has been cleaned.
    All I see at the bottom is a bit of detritus that has accumulated. Certainly no big sludge deposit. It should be obvious.
     
  16. scuzy

    scuzy Supporting Member

    Yeah my brute turns brown and it took me hours took scrap it down and get back to the grey color.


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  17. OnTheReef

    OnTheReef OnTheReef (Eric)

    Interesting, I've been adding RO water to whatever saltwater is left in my barrel, then adding more salt to this diluted mixture. However, I notice that salt mix directions from manufacturers consistently say to add their salt to 0 TDS water. I wonder if this is hurting my mix. I have water changes to do this weekend, I think I will experiment with exhausting my supply of saltwater, then mixing the new batch with pure RO/DI and see if there is a difference in parameters in the mixing barrel.
     
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  18. OnTheReef

    OnTheReef OnTheReef (Eric)

    Yes, Instant Ocean has been plagued with this problem. They have even recalled batches, though it's been a few years since they have done so.
     
  19. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Might be on to something there.
    My mixing barrel is separate from storage, so is always emptied before I mix more.

    Although when I add magnesium, I add it to the RODI before mixing the salt.
     
  20. Gablami

    Gablami Supporting Member

    Just realized that my post did not include the most interesting part. Parameters from the manufacturer:

    [​IMG]


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