Green Marine closing soon

Discussion in 'Other Reef Talk' started by xcaret, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Check out the HR 669 bill as well
  2. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    That's the issue though. You are not the first to report GM as having CB mithrax.

    Tons of hobbyists report spawnings of a lot of stuff. The crux of the issue is the settlement time in most cases. We as humans aren't the best at doing certain species due to either their prolonged planktonic larval stage or we just have not unlocked their first feed.
  3. ryanjiang

    ryanjiang Guest

    What? I was very excited to see the reef when I snorkel many years ago in Maui.

    But that was before I started the hobby, at that time really had no idea one can grow coral at home, knowing nothing about general types of corals etc...

    Now I really really want to see how they look like in nature, I mean not on TV.
  4. GDawson

    GDawson Guest


  5. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Yes they have coral but again, nothing really worth exporting. Very few colors in HI.
  6. Qwiv

    Qwiv Guest

    When I was breeding the sexy shrimp, I looked up emeralds and other crabs. I think the planktonic phase is thought to be well over 3 months, up to 7 months. I'm sure feed would be easy if we could maintain a diverse and breeding zooplankton culture, but in a closed system, something is going to out compete.
  7. Thales

    Thales Past President of the problems of advertising 'Captive only'.
  8. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    I HIGHLY doubt first feed would be available in our systems. Most first feeds that have been found to work are NOT found in our systems nor could they be stocked in a high enough density for them to be of any good. Most larva need X amount of feed per ML in order to even locate it. keeping such densities in most cases would not work in a reef system for many reasons.
  9. Thales

    Thales Past President

    Its a shame about the store. A tough business to begin with - I don't envy the position they are in.
  10. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

  11. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Yah, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now. Guess that is one of the reasons I never opened a LFS up even though plenty of people have pushed me to do so over the years :lol:
  12. Thales

    Thales Past President

    And its worse for GM - an odd business model that I think really needs finesse and experience and connections to pull off. I hope he does though!
  13. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    [/clap emoticon] GM has one a ton of things AFA business models go, and they fit our mission to a T.

    It takes balls to invest into and run a business based on a novel model. Conservative folks would open up a half dozen McDonald's, start a painting company, service computers, mow lawns, stuff that has a formula, a plan. GM falls into a gray area business wise since it is not known whether it works long term. My guess is that if it's going to work anywhere it is in the Bay Area, people are savvy and are willing to support a business that supports the hobby and the hobbyist from an economic and environmental standpoint.
  14. JAR

    JAR Supporting Member

    In my opinion GM needs to carry all the things needed to set someone up with a reef tank. How can you let a customer walk out the door that might set up a tank if you were able to sell him one?
    I'm sure some tank set ups are getting sold for the holidays.
    It's good to see that they finally have a few hard goods. I just hope it is not too late.
  15. h20player101

    h20player101 Guest

    A problem I see, at least for coral, is that GM biggest competition is the DBTC program and club swaps. As to an interest in CB & "renewable" sourcing being more successful in the Bay Area, I think that for the "normal" first time buyer they are not going to have as much of an interest in protecting reefs. I just look at the Petco/Petsmarts that are successful with newbies. How many of the people that purchase their setup from a big box stores would tell you that they prefer to shop local, yet didn't even try and find a LFS? Too many people say one thing on a survey, but then do something else when it comes to paying time.
  16. I feel the DBTC program compliments the store in its mission to promote captive raised and aquacultured stuff. I dont really see it as competition because the true goal of the program, as i understand and see it, is to promote responsible reefing practices as well as develop a sense of camaraderie between this community , rather than someone trying to fill their tank with cool stuff for free.
  17. Gomer

    Gomer Honorary Member

    I could be wrong, but GM has gotten a fair bit of coral indirectly via DBTC and the club.

    Also, GM was started well after DBTC was well established. I'm pretty sure Jim knew the impact of DBTC as "competition"
  18. h20player101

    h20player101 Guest

    I figured he would have known about it, and realize that GM would benefit directly from donations from BAR. But I have a question, who is their target market? I think the group of people most likely to buy sustainable corals are already in this club! It takes an active interest to either go to a store that offers only renewable items and/or pay more. I fall back on how many people talk about global warming and fossil fuels, then hop into their suburban/run their heater all day (with windows open)/have 8,000 watts of metal halide lighting! Or complain about the local economy on their way to Target. :)

    "true goal of the program, as i understand and see it, is to promote responsible reefing practices as well as develop a sense of camaraderie between this community, rather than someone trying to fill their tank with cool stuff for free."

    I agree that this club does much more then DBTC, but simply because it has been so successful with DBTC means there is less opportunity for a business to sell you a similar item. GM is a business first and foremost, if they can not sell enough items to pay rent/PG&E/business license/insurance/advertising/phone/website/staff, they will not be around for much longer. That is why I think the DBTC/renewable idea as of right now needs a club to be successful, that is a small portion of what BAR does & BAR can rely on donations to continue both the club and associated programs. BAR is here to promote better reefkeeping, GM exists to make money (I am not familiar with the owner, but if it was not their intention to make money, a business was not the best approach. A non-profit approach, or even co-op might have worked better.) It is incredibly hard to have any kind of business today, to have one that is competing against every well intentioned hobbyist (who are also a target customer) is going to be extremely difficult.
  19. Thales

    Thales Past President

    The idea that DBTC or frag swaps compete with sales in stores has been around for a while but doesn't really ever seem to pan out. The competition isn't really there and stores the embrace clubs seem to do better.

    From what I can see, the issues with GM have little to do with the business model, but more to do with running a business.
  20. h20player101

    h20player101 Guest

    The stores that have been the most successful when embracing clubs do not base their business on selling captive bread or renewable sources (at least locally, not sure if there is a business similar to GM nationally, Gresham?). How could it not pan out? Basic supply/demand means that if a portion of the demand is being met by clubs, then it can not be filled by stores. Now, swaps I think generate an interest that draw customers into stores, I think some of the sponsors have done a fabulous job supporting the club and have been rewarded because of it. They did not pull customers in to buy CB/sustainable products, but the full spectrum of products they offer. I believe that if you look at the sales figures for most LFS, CB is a small portion of their total sales.

    Running a business has everything to do with your business model, they are not mutually exclusive.

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