Help interpret my Water Chemistry ...pre-dosing

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry' started by anizatoreef, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    I turn off my return several minutes before feeding so I don't end up with food just going straight down into the sump. I turn it back on about 10 mins after feeding.
     
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  2. anizatoreef

    anizatoreef Guest

    awesome! thanks. I will figure out how much to dose so I can dose the CA tomorrow during the day.

    I tested the water before the WC.

    ALK 6.7
    CA 450
    MG 1600

    tested ALK of the WC 12.6dkH.

    tested ALK in tank an hour after WC 7.7dkH

    According to the calculator:

    To increase Alkalinity by:
    0.3 dKh from 7.7 to 8dKh
    will require:
    8ml, 0.2 fl oz, 1.6 tsp of supplement

    Effect on PH:
    Substantially Higher!

    Balanced Calcium:
    417 ppm at 8 dKh Alkalinity

    so do I break this down into 7 days of the week? 1 ml a day?
     
  3. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    Having nsw that has substantially different level parameters than what you want to have is problematic when trying to figure out how much dosing to do. Esp if you do as large and as often of a wc as you do.

    Dosing amounts should be based on how much your tank consumes in a day.

    Dose the tank to the levels you want to maintain. Test 5-10mins after.

    Test again the next day at around the same time.

    That will give you daily dosing amounts.

    Dose recommended amounts. Test in 5-10.

    Test again the next day around the same time. Adjust as needed.

    Just remember that hobby level test kits have a certain amount of noise so don't get caught up in chasing that 0.2 dkh in Alk or the 5ppm in Ca levels.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    What salt are you using?
     
  5. anizatoreef

    anizatoreef Guest

    I say that based on the last 4 weeks of everyday testing, my tank consumes roughly 0.1dKh a day.
    In the beginning, I didn't test for the longest time, assuming that constant water changes of the same amount of water and salinity every week, the rest of the chemistry would take care of itself. Of course that was too good to be true.

    Been using the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt Mix since day 1.

    My tank is roughly 60 gallons. 47display, + 10 fuge, plus roughly

    Yesterday was water change day, my tank was at 6.7dKh before ... the new water was 12.6dkH ... and the tank was at 7.7dKh 2 hours after WC

    24 hrs after WC and ALK is 7.6dKh... further confirming that 0.1dKh is consumed daily.

    The bottle says to dose 1ml per 4 gallons... so that is 15ml for 60 gallons.
    The reef calculator suggests 8ml to bring up from 7.7dKh to 8dKh.

    Should I dose 8ml or 15ml.

    Also, should I dose CA as well... or should I bring ALK up to 8.0dKh THEN dose CA?
     
  6. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    I would start dosing CA as well.
    The reason : The CA level generally affects Alk usage.
    So you cannot simply work on one at a time.

    * I would not say that if Alk was way off though.
     
  7. Bruce Spiegelman

    Bruce Spiegelman Supporting Member

    It's certainly not going to hurt anything to dose 15 ml. That's really a very small amount. I've dosed 100ml in a day with no issues. Besides even if you hit 9-11dkh it won't hurt anything. A lot of people run10-12 dkh consistently.

    Also recheck the calculator. There's no way you can raise even .3 with 8ml. I just checked on the BRS calculator and got 25 ml.
     
  8. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    I would start w 8 ml for a while and keep tearing and see what happens. Easier to add more if needed but not add less once it's done.
     
  9. Bruce Spiegelman

    Bruce Spiegelman Supporting Member

    He's smarter than I am so go with his recommendation, but so check the BRS calculator.
     
  10. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    You have less than 60g. Rocks + sand + sump is not full.

    Using a net volume of 48g (guessing 80% of total volume), raising from 7.7 to 8 and using B-ionic part 1. The calculator gives me 27.7ml.

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. anizatoreef

    anizatoreef Guest

    AHHHH!! I see the problem madams & sirs, in the drop down menu of the reef calculator, I was selecting the incorrect option. I was selecting "ESV B-Ionic Original Ca Buff pt1" as opposed to "ESV B-Ionic Bicarbonate Syst pt1".

    The correct number is indeed 27.7ml thanks to our friend Vhuang168 !! Badass buddy!

    So on to the next ...

    27.7 ml of ALK should be dosed within a week? so split that into 7 equal parts? This means I will also dose 27.7ml of Calcium as well, EVEN THOUGH my Calcium has not fluctuated, because there are no coral to consume Calcium? OR just dose ALK until I reach 8?

    What happens once I finally reach 8? within the week? I also understand ALK is to be dosed with lights out and Calcium with lights on?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  12. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Don't chase numbers until your hair falls out!!

    It really looks like you are over doing this.

    Alk range is big, from 7-11, not from 7.9 to 8.1
    CA range is large as well, 380-450, and some push above that.

    Many tank problems are caused, not solved, by chasing numbers.
    Why: Because if you mess around that much, sooner or later you will over-compensate.
    And stability is far more important than the exact values.
     
  13. anizatoreef

    anizatoreef Guest

    k so I will dose 8 ml test in 30 min and see if I can add 8ml more, since the number is no longer 8ml to go from 7.7dKh to 8dKh it is 27.7ml.
     
  14. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    I was suggesting 8 ml per day and see where that gets you over time for the record. You could add the 28 ml all at once, assume you're at 8, then calculate how much it takes to raise it by .1 and add that each day to maintain it at 8 cause that is what you are seeing your tank using up per day. Sounds like that should be right around 8-9 ml per day.
    You're water changes are always gonna be a bit stressful when you're new water is that much higher alk than your tank. I use aquavitro salinity in large part for this reason as it mixes up in the high 8s or low 9s alk and that's where I try to keep my tanks at.
     
  15. anizatoreef

    anizatoreef Guest

    FANTASTIC! so this is what has happened guys!

    First of all, I want to thank all of you for participating and contributing with some very valuable input. This project would not have been the same without you guys. So thank you!

    On to the good stuff.

    THE HANNAH PHOSPHORUS ULR CHECKER IS HERE!!

    3/29
    So on the last Water Change day, last Wednesday, Alk was at 6.7dKh pre-WC. The new water was 12.6dKh.
    3/30
    The next day ALK was at 7.7dKh.
    I added 8ml of ALK and it went up to 7.9dKh.
    3/31 (HANNA ARRIVES - too busy to use it)
    ALK reaches 7.7dKh again
    I added 16ml of ALK and it went up to 8.3dKh.
    4/1 (the small spots of coralline are getting larger)
    ALK reaches 8dKh
    I added 16ml of ALK and it went up to 8.4dKh
    4/2 (today) (HANNA first time use) (new 'half-dime-sized' spots of coralline on glass)
    ALK is at 8.4 (I usually test at 8pm so I still have a few hours before I test for the real -TODAY- result)
    CA is at 450

    So I guess today I will dose only 8ml ? Like you suggested, Coral reefer, 8ml is the final daily dose it appears :) Excellent job Mr. Presidente!

    I will keep you guys posted on the results of this evenings tests and for the weeks to come to make this a proper "study" of sorts.
     
  16. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Yeah that's probably about the right amount. Just make sure you keep checking at least weekly for awhile.
     
  17. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    One more thing you can do is anticipate how much the alk changes with your water changes and adjust your dosing on those days.
     
  18. anizatoreef

    anizatoreef Guest

    So I know the new water is around 12.6dKh, the tank is now at 8.4 dosing 8ml of ALK a day. What do you mean by anticipate and adjusting according to the changes?


    ....

    On another note. Adding Water that is 12.6dKh... doesn't that mean that I am inevitably raising the ALK to the levels of the Salt Mix?

    In theory, level of ALK is 8.4. Before dosing it was at 6.7, and would raise to 7.7 at Water Change. So does that mean that this next Water Change the tank will go up to 9.4? This sounds dangerous no?
     
  19. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Again, that's why I use a salt mix that sets you up w what you are trying to maintain in your tank. Salinity gives me right around 9 alk. Ideal for me.
     
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  20. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    So it looks like your alk increased 1.0 dKh with a water change. I forget if you mentioned how much your tank uses up each day but if it uses say, 1.0 dKh a day then you wouldn't dose that day. If it uses 2.0 dKh then dose 1/2 as much. If it only uses 0.5 dKh then don't dose for two days. Ideally, like has been already stated, it's best to have a salt mix with the parameters that you want. I used to use reef crystals but have switched over to Fritz now.
     
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