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Help with leaky plumbing

Hi guys,
I have a problem, I have connections that leak. I hired a aquarium installer to design and install my plumbing. He installed it, but it had 5 leaks. 2 of them he fixed with, Reef puddy, Superglue, and an acrylic weld glue.

One of the welded seams is still leaking, and another reducer and the collar on the pump is leaking.

My question is what is the best way to fix these leaks? Is there a preferred method for repairing these leaks? I was hoping the installer would fix them, but his position is that I need to pay more for him to come back out and fix it. I don;t want to get into a bashing session, I just need the tank fixed so I can use it. And I am by no means an expert on this.. thats why I hired someone who had a good reputation.

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Isn't there some blue stuff that plumbers use to seal these kind of things? I think it's called pipe thread compound? Is there a ton of pressure going through those points causing them to leak?
 
I have heard you can create a "vacuum" (negative pressure) and put PVC cement/glue around the joint to get it to SUCK into the hole/leaks.
This might help plug up the leak correctly with PVC bonding cement.

The problem is you'd have to plug up all the other outlets.

Remember, the hole needs to be dry for cement to bond properly. So you may need to run the vacuum a bit to dry out the hole (and/or apply a hair dryer GENTLY near the area to help accelerate evaporation).


You could try to use plumbers putty (my guess similar to Reef Puddy), but it just helps "wrap around" the pipe and not really solve the actual "leaking hole" issue.
Superglue is too brittle, it'll crack off over time. And acrylic weld wouldn't seem like it would help since you're bonding PVC pipes.
 
My opinion would be to sand it (80 grit) down to bare PVC, make sure it is clean and DRY,
then liberally coat it with a good quality two part 10 minute epoxy.
I have used epoxy instead of bulkheads, and used tons in my DIY wood sump.
It can bond really well to sanded PVC. But it MUST be clean and rough.

Alternately, cut the joints out and redo them. A pain, but permanent!
That one on upper left could probably be replaced within reason.

It is REALLY surprising that welded PVC joints like that would leak.
But your close-up picture is interesting. I see a lack of purple-stains at the joint, which are normal
from the cleaning phase. I also see no blobs of PVC/cement. There is usually a bit
that is forced up out of the joint. Odd.
 
rygh said:
My opinion would be to sand it (80 grit) down to bare PVC, make sure it is clean and DRY,
then liberally coat it with a good quality two part 10 minute epoxy.
I have used epoxy instead of bulkheads, and used tons in my DIY wood sump.
It can bond really well to sanded PVC. But it MUST be clean and rough.

Alternately, cut the joints out and redo them. A pain, but permanent!
That one on upper left could probably be replaced within reason.

It is REALLY surprising that welded PVC joints like that would leak.
But your close-up picture is interesting. I see a lack of purple-stains at the joint, which are normal
from the cleaning phase. I also see no blobs of PVC/cement. There is usually a bit
that is forced up out of the joint. Odd.

Like the idea of epoxy. Much better than superglue & acrylic cement for bonding purposes.

My guess for the leak is too thin/uneven application of PVC cement. I've actually been lazy and never used the "purple" primer. ^_^ That's just me. But I use a good amount of cement. Usually on NEW PVC pipes, there is not much horrible gunk to ruin the bonding.
 
Clarification:
For the epoxy idea : I meant the LIQUID two part epoxy, not the putty type.
Big difference. The liquid type will seep into all the holes and pores, where the putty will not.

On a side note, asking for more money to come back and fix mistakes is also very surprising.
I think I would be less nice in that situation. |(
 
Sucks the guy did not do it right the first time.
If you can chop out the leaky fittings and start from scratch that would work.
Otherwise since there is low pressure you could gob on a bunch of PVC cement o top of the leaky areas.
Getting it good and dry is a must and why not stick a vacuum cleaner on it. Just suck the primer then the glue in to the leaks!
 
First off, fire that plumber! A job is not complete unless it's leak free!! Patches are NOT acceptable.

OK, How to fix?

The two elbow combination (close up):
If it was me, I'd cut the ells out. Get two 'couplings' and two ells to glue in. Gluing PVC is just about as easy as it gets. I'm sure there are 'How To' videos on the web. Best to get the parts first so you'll know how much pipe to cut. Make sure you leave enough pipe above the ells and to the right of the ells to glue the new stuff in.This would be the perfect time to install unions (instead of coupling) so you could take pipe apart if ever needed.

I can't really see the other leaking areas in the picture. The lower one, behind the corner of the sump looks like it might be just a loose union. Not an easy place to get to, but try tightening if it is the union.

Since you might not be comfortable doing this yourself, get a good plumber. It'll be worth it for peace of mind and the entertainment value hearing the good plumber swear about the job #1 guy did!
 
Seems weird he won't fix it. And weird that he didn't use primer. Maybe offer to pay more after he fixes it and there are no leaks. Looks like people have pointed out the best ways to fix it already. I vote cut out and redo the ones you can.
 
rygh, I use a clear primer, neater job on exposed pipe and I wipe off the excess glue. Same neatness factor.

I've glued hundreds of fittings. I can't remember having a failure. It's just so easy to do. The only leak I've ever had was the pipe had a small pin hole. Easy to fix BEFORE I filled in the trench. :)

For aquarium plumbing to fail it must have been a really crappy job. There is so little pressure on the pipe. Another indication of poor workmanship - the patch! Only in an emergency - like when it's Christmas day and no stores are open.

I don't agree with the rest of you about patching. Rip it out, fix it right and reinstall! The patch will always fail when you are out of town. It's da' LAW! :)
 
Sorry, I kept referring to the workman as a plumber. I just reread and he's an aquarium installer. No one doing that quality of work could call themselves a plumber!!

There's no way I'd have someone doing that kind of work back in my house. If he works for a company, I'd complain to the boss and send them a bill from a real plumber.
 
Thanks, looks like the consensus is it really should be replaced.

Almost seems like it would be more work to try to fix it than just cutting out the bad spots and gluing new pvc in. The trouble is he works for a good LFS, one that I shop in quite a bit. But the job was a side job, for the installer, since the LFS does not do installs. Just puts me in awkward position, I would like to shop there still without feeling weird about it.
 
+1 what John (Aquanut) said.

Cut out the areas and use some unions. Primer helps meld the pipe for better adhesion w/weldon. Also, turning the pipe slightly after applying weld on helps with speading the glue evenly in the fittings.
 
IF you do not want to go through the hassle of cutting it out and redoing (which I would do), Rescue Tape is a viable option, cheap, and effective.

www.rescuetape.com

They have it at OSH, but not sure about HD, Lowes, ACE, etc.

That has to be the weakest excuse for a installer. He messed up the plumbing (hard to do - I bet he/she did not debur the cut).

FWIW I use clear primer as well and you cannot tell my joints are plumbed unless you look very close. The more glue you use, the greater chance of failure, I've found.
 
FWIW in a non pressure, and low pressure situation like we have with most reef tanks, there truly is no need for primer. I mainly use it to help clean the fitting and pipe.
 
I can understand why the installer doesn't want to redo it. The fittings would cost a lot out of his pocket if he is doing this on the side. Probably more than what he got paid for the job.

That said, it should have been done correctly. I built a PVC manifold (the one in my tank thread) but then rebuilt the whole thing to use bigger diameter piping. Cost me another $50+ dollars to redo it. Things we do for this hobby to get things "just right".
 
Coral reefer said:
I wouldn't feel right charging somebody for a job that wasn't done well. Just saying, maybe stay away from him going forward.

+1,000,000

You are hired to install non leaky plumbing. Had you wanted plumbing that leaked, I am sure you would have specified that in the get go.

100% the installers fault and 100% should come out of that persons pocket. The installer did not deliver the promised service & product.

WORST INSTALLER EVER - you should out this person so no one takes any plumbing advice from him/her :D
 
Extremely short sighted on the installers part. This hobby is not like selling burgers at MickeyD's. (billions served). You get a bad rep and it quickly gets around. Even if it costs him more than the parts and what you paid him, he should make it right.

I fully understand you don't want to loose the LFS connection. Since it's a side job you really can't expect much from the LFS. Perhaps you could just give the owner a heads up on this guy. Any good owner would want to know about this. He should not be recommending the installer. It reflects negatively on his store. Lastly, perhaps find the work schedule of the 'installer' and try to visit the store other times. :)
 
SoulFish said:
Thanks, looks like the consensus is it really should be replaced.

Almost seems like it would be more work to try to fix it than just cutting out the bad spots and gluing new pvc in. The trouble is he works for a good LFS, one that I shop in quite a bit. But the job was a side job, for the installer, since the LFS does not do installs. Just puts me in awkward position, I would like to shop there still without feeling weird about it.

It will probably be awkward either way from now on.
Might as well do what is best for you.

My preferred way in these situations is to send an old fashioned letter in the mail.
Not rude or threatening, but direct, to the point.
It makes it clear what you want, and why.
It tends to scare people, being so formal, plus putting things in writing is a prelude to lawsuits.
But at the same time, you are not really threatening directly.
 
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