Herbie Noise

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Jeff Rehling, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Jeff Rehling

    Jeff Rehling Supporting Member

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    wrong verbiage...overflow lines are not keeping up with the return pump, so the water level gets too low and sucks in air
     
  2. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

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    The Durso has the gate valve, that’s the main. What was the internal return, is the emergency drain.
     
  3. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

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    You might need to replace that pump, might be too powerful.
    I will stop midday at Guerrero St, you can borrow a Quiet1 3000 I have in there.
    What is the threas size on your pump?
    I believe the Q1 is 3/4”
     
  4. Jeff Rehling

    Jeff Rehling Supporting Member

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    actually, right you are. the durso is reduced to a small trickle, so it must be clogged
     
  5. Jeff Rehling

    Jeff Rehling Supporting Member

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    i'm going to need to remove the bulkhead and the main line to snake out the critter--unless there's another reason the main line isn't full bore
     
  6. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

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    Here’s one thing I’ve encountered with gate valves; mainly copper fittings but they are basically the same design.
    Couple plumbing jobs I helped my brother that required the water to be off, shutt the gate valve off; once we were done, open the gate valve but no water; guess what, the “gate” itself detached from the handle.
    Is not common but it has happened to me/us. Replaced them with 1/4 turn ball valves but those were for the water main.
     
  7. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

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    Can't you pull the Durso out of the bulkhead? Tell me you didn't glue it in...
     
  8. Jeff Rehling

    Jeff Rehling Supporting Member

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    i cannot, but no, it's not glued. I think i had the valve too far closed. I'm a soup sandwich
     
  9. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

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    Is not glued in but pipes tend to like the place where they are attached and the overflow is uncomfortable to work-in.
     
  10. Jeff Rehling

    Jeff Rehling Supporting Member

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    you need two sets of hands, one to hold the pipe below the tank and one to twist the other off
     
  11. Jeff Rehling

    Jeff Rehling Supporting Member

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    So to recap...about 4am Saturday the overflow was too low and the e-drain was super loud. i fiddled with the gate until i thought i had it right. yesterday afternoon the return pump chamber was too low.

    For the first symptom, the drain was draining more than the pump was returning...so i needed to slowly close the gate valve to compensate. I guess the second one was caused by the tank leveling itself out over time with the return pump sending more water into the tank than I had the gate programmed to allow.

    Question is, do i have to constantly fiddle, or get the ATO working properly to maintain the same water level?

    I really appreciate all the help and have a super holiday
     
  12. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

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    This is the part I don’t understand.

    If the water level in the overflow is too low, how is there water going into the e-drain?

    Is the e-drain lower than the main drain?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  13. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

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    Pretty sure he is confused and is trying to say the siphon was loud because it was gulping air due to valve being open too much?
     
  14. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

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    You need to get the gate valve set properly and not mess with it. My suggestion is to adjust the gate valve in the smallest increments you can, and wait at least 5 min inbetween adjustments.
    Why do you believe your ato is "not set properly"?
     
  15. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

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    Emergency drain is a bit higher than the main.
    We adjusted it when we put it together, turning the gate valve close little by little as to achieve the proper ratio of main:trickle.

    @Jeff Rehling If the ATO is to play part on it, maybe setting the right height of the sensor/s so yes, play with it a bit.
    you want to have a minimum water line and a maximum.
    The minimum for the return pump not to suck air if too low for X reason; a 90* elbow facing down will prevent that, this one would be attached to the pump's intake.
    The maximum level is to prevent the sump from overflowing in case power goes out. Return nozzles are normally set just below the water-line; power goes out, air sucks in and siphon breaks. Having the nozzles high, also helps on the surface air exchange and to prevent some "dusty film" on the surface.
    Return nozzles can be also a bit submerged as to aid in the water movement; the Lockline pieces have a hole drilled to break siphon; check once in a while for it to be free of buildup.
     
  16. MolaMola

    MolaMola Supporting Member

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    How can the return pump chamber of the sump ever get too low if you have the ATO sensor in there? Sure it's pumping properly?
    Also, before you take apart the main drain to look for a clog, have you tried evacuating any trapped air? As suggested, you can open the gate fully, then slowly start closing it and adjusting incrementally as @Coral reefer said. Also, before adjusting the gate you can try blocking the outflow of the main drain with your hand from the sump (assuming your emergency drain is open - I agree to having no valve on it). If air is trapped in the main drain line, this will push it up and out, restoring flow. Surprising how strong air can be.
     
  17. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

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    If that is the case, how is water going into the e-drain if water level in the overflow is low?

    Not trying to be difficult, just want clarity to understand the problem before offering any suggestions.

    In a herbie, there should be NO trickle into the e-drain. You don’t want algae or anything clogging up the e-drain. It should be completely dry at all time until the time when it is asked to take over in case the main drain is clogged. That is also the reason why there shouldn’t be a gate or ball or valve of any kind on the e-drain. You want to give it 0 chances to clog.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  18. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

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    Not sure what happened to his drain; it was running smoothly;
    Water in the overflow wasn't low when we set it up; first we had the main fully open then adjusted so the e-drain had a trickle and to the point of no noise/bubbles.
    I'm perplexed on what happened; my only reasoning is something clogged the main and the e-drain is doing its work, you know, emergency.
    Hope he solves it and things back to normal.
     
  19. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

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    Seems like almost impossible to o run a full siphon with no trickle? I always send about 1% down the second drain...
     
  20. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

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    Would have to have a controllable pump output and a nice smooth gate valve. Even pump output will be key.

    Which is why a BA overflow is preferable to a Herbie.


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