Ich

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by Calde0920, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. Calde0920

    Calde0920 Guest

    I have a question about it. Can a fish become immune to ich?
     
  2. euod

    euod Supporting Member

    Yes.
    It can still get hit though on any given bout of ich or secondary infection. I had fish that would survived many ich infestation until one day, it got him.
     
  3. sjbro

    sjbro Guest

    Yes, from what I read and seen, I believe the same. Some fish could get temporarily resistance to ich, escaping an outbreak. But, they don't get full immunity, they could even still host the ich in small amounts. Then, when they get a bit stressed their defense is broken and the ich overtakes them. And the fish immune system is very sensitive to changes of any sort, including a new tank mate, landscape changes, water quality changes...
     
  4. RandyC

    RandyC Supporting Member

    "Fish that survive an ich infection can develop an immune response and become resistant to parasite re-infection. Serum and mucus from those immune fish contain antibodies against the parasite. Then, when infective theronts come into contact with anti-ich antibodies, the antibodies cause the theronts to become immobilized. The immobilization causes the theronts to lose their swimming ability. The antibodies also cause the parasites to leave the fish so that ich cannot become established in immune fish."

    source: http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/preventing-ich-full-article.htm
     
  5. RandyC

    RandyC Supporting Member

    So you got me in research mode. The article above is actually in reference to Freshwater Ich and not Marine ich, but I also found this about Marine Ich

    "Fish can actually develop immunity after a survived exposure to Ich. They can have a total immunity or partial, which helps them ward off large infestations, while low level infestations are allowed to exist (Bai, 2008)."

    And interestingly enough, there is a vaccine that exists for Marine Ich. "Vaccines have been developed, yet are not available to the hobbyist. Its usefulness in aquaculture is limited as it is impossible to vaccinate every fish in a fish farm. Vaccines that are administered via other modes are being developed, yet nothing has been as effective or practical such as individual injections (Yambot, 2006)."

    source: http://www.tfhmagazine.com/details/articles/preventing-ich-full-article.htm
    source: http://www.lionfishlair.com/health-disease/cryptocaryon-irritans/
     
  6. Calde0920

    Calde0920 Guest

    So a fish can potentially become immune or less prone to ich? But then again it depends on the ich strain?
     
  7. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    Ich is a parasite so it doesn't have different strains. It's more about the health of the fish and the amount of exposure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
    Bruce Spiegelman likes this.
  8. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    Treat prophylacticly BEFORE ANY fish is introduced to the system and continue to do so. All it takes is 1 new addition with an especially robust parasite to wipe out ALL your fish!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    "Can" some fish? Yes, it seems so.
    Do all fish? Unknown
    Is it permanent? Unknown.
    How fast do they develop immunity? Unknown.

    Questions I can answer:
    Can fish die before generating immunity? Yep.
    Can you rely on fish getting immunity? Nope.

    Which as a bit of a reminder means: That question is fun to ask and discuss, but not relevant to actually taking care of fish.
     
  10. Calde0920

    Calde0920 Guest

    Will be doing ttm unfortunately and leaving tank fallow. Live and learn from now on only QT every fish. Another question can ich be killed by anemone sting? Might sound like a dumb question but is it possible?
     
  11. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Actually, ich-eatin-anemones seems like a rather fun question.

    I don't have any direct knowledge, but poking around and rampantly guessing, it seems possible.
    It depends a lot on the type of anemone.
    For example, on Metridium farcimen it appears the prey can be as small as 0.2 mm, and they commonly eat invertebrate larvae.
    Since the ich Trophont can be as large as 1 mm, and likely is pretty similar to invertebrate larvae, it seems quite possible that it could be eaten.

    For the typical RBTA we have in aquariums, I would guess they are less likely due to larger tentacles.
    Although Aptasia and Majanos may.

    --

    TTM is a great method!
    I always do the bucket brigade now when I get new fish.
     
  12. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    Could you imagine if it was found that aptasia could get rid of ich. I mean, if you suddenly found your prize fish infected with ich but you knew if you introduced aptasia to the tank that he'd be cured along with all your other fish. Would you do it?
     
  13. Gablami

    Gablami Supporting Member

    Yes, and then bring in the peppermints!
     
  14. roostertech

    roostertech reef noob

    I read enough story about peppermint eating softies that I'm not sure if I would ever want one now.
     
  15. Calde0920

    Calde0920 Guest

    Or the file fish
     
  16. Gablami

    Gablami Supporting Member

    Hey softy vs prized fish.

    Speaking of TTM, who started that thing? Is there any science behind 4 transfers vs 3 transfers etc? Like more is better and 4 sounds reasonable?

    Last TTM I got impatient after 3 transfers, fished looked healthy and I really wanted to just transfer into DT. Couldn't find anything on the science or data behind TTM.
     
  17. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

  18. Gablami

    Gablami Supporting Member

    Yes, I guess 4 transfers seemed an arbitrary number, unless there was data behind 4 as opposed to 3.
     
  19. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    If you shorted a transfer, you could very well have introduced ich into your system. More transfers is better. Under 3 days, no good. Past 72 hrs? No good.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. Calde0920

    Calde0920 Guest

    So for sure 75 days fallow?
     

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