Cali Kid Corals

"In tank flow" versus "sump to tank flow"

Vincerama2

Vincerama2

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For Wifebane, I'm planning to use my trusty ancient ViaAqua return pump (11+ years of continuous use). It's not high flow at all, but that's OK, I sort of prefer less sump water movement for greater skimmer dwell time, etc.

So if my turnover rate is not exactly traditional for a 180g, I'm wondering ...

is simple in tank flow more important than sump/tank turnover flow?

Ie; Is some crazy expensive wave making Vortech pump in the display tank better than a large return pump? Of course with a good wavemaking return device (like an Oceans Motions return wavemaker) there won't be a large pump in the tank. but on the other hand, an in-tank pump is more useful if you have to take your sump off line.

Discuss ...

V
 
I think you answered your own question. ;)

You don't want high flow going through your sump, but rather in tank via power heads or closed loop.
 
Flow has two main components, 1) moving water to where it can get to filtration/lifesupport you have (skimmer, chaeto ball in a refugium, heaters, etc) and 2) bringing food/ions/etc to corals via in tank methods.

For point 1
I am out there on the fringe that says there is nothing wrong with high flow through the Sump. By moving fast through the sump you insure that all the water will be roughly the same level of "clean" or "hot", the skimmer will always be skimming at approximately the same quality of water and your heaters will keep the tank warm. By moving too slow through the sump there will be a slight difference between tank quality of water due to skimming and sump quality, your skimmer might not work as effectively if the water is "too clean", and while yeah you might say "cleaner water is going back to the tank" that also means dirtier water stays in the tank longer, then there's the heater side of things, if you can feel a noticeable difference in temperature between tank and sump (or even near the heater in your sump) then you're not moving that warm water away from the heater fast enough.

For point 2
Velocity vs volume, with a return pump for the same volume you'll typically have higher velocity in a smaller cross sectional area. The "high flow" pumps in tank will get you less velocity but over a larger area. Too much velocity can be harmful to corals though, as it might not have enough time to "grab stuff" out of the water column, plus it could rip flesh off of the coral but place a coral right in front of a Tunze stream pump and you can get the same thing. However velocity can also be useful for creating gradients of flow as the high speed water will pull water along with it, although if you split your return into too many outlets you just negated all the velocity.

One last point is energy usage, there is not a single sump pump out there that can move as much water for as few watts as those in tank "large flow" pumps (Vortech, Tunze, Koralia, etc) it's just impossible as the way they move water is radically different. So make sure you get enough flow through your sump, but you'll be exchanging your money for aesthetics of no pumps in the tank.
 
My experience with low flow through the sump is that it just gives Cyanobacteria and all sorts of other nasties a nice place to grow and accumulate. When I had a refugium in my sump, I didn't notice any difference in its ability to function whether I had low flow or high flow (my return pump is adjustable). How much water do you think your return pump is going to move?

As for fancy wave-making equipment, my vortech is probably the only piece of equipment that I own where I don't have at least one gripe about it or any regrets about having purchased it.
 
Apon, I've not got water in it yet, my parents are visiting so I'd rather spend time with them than work on the tank, but once they go home, I'll get more work done.

Which Vortech do you use? At first the sticker shock had me paralyzed, but considering how much I've already put into the tank, it's not too crazy if it's a quality piece of equipment and is durable.

I'll let you know when it's full and borrow yours, or buy one!

Any comments on it?


V
 
I probably will be going away from Vortechs in the near future, I got random parts lying all over the place and probably could find a few I could sell. Let me know before you buy anything new. Although mine are the older wireless ones, not the "ecosmart" ones.
 
OK, let me know what bits and pieces you have, I was thinking two MP40 (the pumps, not the submachine gun) in some sort of wavemaking capacity.

Hellishly expensive ... dang!
 
New tank has 1" thick acrylic, MP40s are maxed out at 3/4"

Just let me know when you get some water in it, I'll let you borrow one to see if you like it. Because the motor is on the outside of the tank some have said it's noisier than they think.
 
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No thread yet, I'm like Jim and not like Jim, take my time, but don't want to have a 1000 page plus thread before water even hits the tank :D

1" is the "back" end where the overflows are due to how they were done, attached with black acrylic to the back acrylic panel which brought the total size to 15/16" (whatever.. it's 1" thick in my book). The tank is a peninsula style tank so I'm stuck with pumps being on the back. I could do a 2 side view and get pumps on another side, but nah. I could find a way to sand down the black acrylic to get to the 3/4" thick stuff... but too many issues and potential bad things that could come from that IMO.
 
sfsuphysics said:
No thread yet, I'm like Jim and not like Jim, take my time, but don't want to have a 1000 page plus thread before water even hits the tank :D
Click to expand...

But you miss out on all the great and totally accurate "advice" you would get. :)


sfsuphysics said:
1" is the "back" end where the overflows are due to how they were done, attached with black acrylic to the back acrylic panel which brought the total size to 15/16" (whatever.. it's 1" thick in my book). The tank is a peninsula style tank so I'm stuck with pumps being on the back. I could do a 2 side view and get pumps on another side, but nah. I could find a way to sand down the black acrylic to get to the 3/4" thick stuff... but too many issues and potential bad things that could come from that IMO.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Mine was done that way also. Dark blue bonded to clear.
Peninsula styles are sweet!
 
Well it does have 5 holes drilled in the bottom for some sort of closed loop, a couple of them are a bit too close to the front corners for my tastes, I'm going to have to think about what to do with that. But regardless, I'm still way back in the construction phase of the room, so I'm not really planning on how to plumb the tank quite yet.
 
Well, if you can set up the closed loop nozzles to create a nice gyre, it might be
efficient enough. Sure would be nice to lose those annoying powerheads.
With the new controllable DC pumps, you could even have a micro-contolled oscillating gyre.
With slight overlap for a surge. Should be great flow, and look very clean.
 
Vincerama2 said:
Apon, I've not got water in it yet, my parents are visiting so I'd rather spend time with them than work on the tank, but once they go home, I'll get more work done.

Which Vortech do you use? At first the sticker shock had me paralyzed, but considering how much I've already put into the tank, it's not too crazy if it's a quality piece of equipment and is durable.

I'll let you know when it's full and borrow yours, or buy one!

Any comments on it?


V
Click to expand...

Vince come on the tank tour and see some in action. Maybe I will sell you some of my extra ones.;)
 
Unfortunately, I can't make the tank tour, my parents are in town only until the 4th, so we're likely taking them to Monterey on Sunday, to see the aquarium!
 
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