Interesting Tank Monitor...MindStream

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by jonmos75, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. jonmos75

    jonmos75 Supporting Member

    I have been following this product for about a year or two....and didn't think it will ever get off the ground but it looks like it might be released to the public some time this year....

    Not sure how much I would trust this type of technology, but if it works I think it will be REALLY COOL....

    Here are some links to the product:

    Advanced Aquarist Article

    Main Website

    Facebook Page (even tho I don't use
  2. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Guest

    So what makes you think it will be released this year? Two things will make or break this product (at least for me) first is the accuracy, doesn't need to be off the charts precise (as good as any API test kit is good for me), and second replacement discs/tests for it need to be in the same range as test kit pricing.
  3. jonmos75

    jonmos75 Supporting Member

    I agree 110%, and would love to see if it could connect to my Apex, but lets see if your TWO points make the

    Why I said this year is here in their time line...
  4. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Guest

    ah neat didn't click the about button, all this time I've referred to this product as vaporware :D
  5. jonmos75

    jonmos75 Supporting Member

    I agree but I have notice they took off the NO3 as one of the tests it will do....I was really curious on that
  6. jonmos75

    jonmos75 Supporting Member

    Time will only tell if it will work and be affordable!!!
  7. Enderturtle

    Enderturtle Volunteer

    There are a lot of people with deep pockets in this hobby and also those with less deep pockets but have invested a lot of $ in their tanks. I think it will sell.

    Looks interesting hope it releases this year. Would love to give one away for the upcoming frag swap :)
    jonmos75 likes this.
  8. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Guest

    I'm currently using Seneye. It's similar in the sense it has a consumable and measures some parameters.

    It only does NH3, PH n Temp. But I t also gives readings for NH4 n dissolved Oxygen though I think those are extrapolated figures.

    The biggest draw for me was the par meter and the spectrometer. The par meter is useful n seems to be accurate. Not sure about the spectra part.

    I find it useful but not life altering. If this does everything it says it does, might do well!

    I wouldn't trust it's readings wholesale but would create a baseline based on Hanna/Red Sea kits n use it to monitor if something goes out of whack.
    jonmos75 and Enderturtle like this.
  9. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    It would be nice if it is real some day. I would certainly buy it.
    Even though I really only care to see Alk and Ca.
  10. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Guest

    Shoot if it's too expensive, I'd be willing to rent it from someone (cost of a replacement testing disc thingy?) simply to test my calcium/alkalinity/magnesium depletion as a function of time without having to do use tests myself, granted I'm sure it will be something like 8 - 7 - 8 - 7 - 8dkH over the course of a day, but at least you can see an average value (records every 20 minutes?) compared to test kits where my dkH is something like +/- 1 dkH, so seeing many tests (even less than accurate ones) over the course of a many readings can give some clearer insight. Like I tell my students, "don't worry if one result is off, that's why we take many data points, to hopefully have everything average out"
  11. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Guest

  12. Tskiller

    Tskiller Guest

    Really exciting news. Testing is one of the few aspects of reefing that I find tedious and boring.
  13. tygunn

    tygunn Webmaster

    I'd be all over an automated testing setup. As easy as my test kits are, they get far too little attention. :)
  14. Merith

    Merith Guest

    Came across this the other day on reefbuilders I know the price is gonna suck as I'm one of those on the side of brokeish lol, I don't actually mind testing at all but for some reason just like fragging I feel the need to stand when doing this (for some reason I feel more steady when standing to do something like this, makes pain worse but I feel I am able to be more accurate for some reason) the issue for me is the amount of time it takes to do all the tests is long enough to take a bit out of me which takes away from other things I'm able to do that day. Something like this would be amazing for me as if it's decently accurate it will enable me to put the energy and pain tolerance into other things.

    That being said I looked into probes for some of these things a while back and while i was able to find them for most of the params they were incredibly expensive, which makes me wonder 2 things about this first knowing the price for probes for other things makes me worried that this bad boy might end up being incredibly expensive as a result. Secondly if they manage to keep the price in the more reasonable department how much accuracy is being sacrificed to achieve that. While it doesn't need to be as accurate as say a hannah checker but would be nice if it could get close enough that other things could be automated based on the levels from this device.

    At the ca reef co event I got the pleasure of talking with one of the guys from fish bit, I know their a ways of from features like this but from the way it sounded they were looking into some of these options as well.

    @Vhuang168 My brain isn't working atm and google didn't seem to be helpful which one is the NH4? If my searching was right I don't know how useful being able to measure ammonia would be for a reef tank aside from dumping some in or someone with some drunk idiot friends peeing in the tank or something I feel that with a reef tank by the time filtration would break down to the point that ammonia is registering you already loosing live stock if not have lost already. Is that kind right or am I missing something.
  15. Tskiller

    Tskiller Guest

    kickstarter is up.

    I'm not sure I'm super excited about this any longer. It tracks: alkalinity, ca, mag, salinity/tds, PH, CO2, O2, Ammonia, Temp, Potassium

    Out of those things, I only really care about is the Alk, Ca, and Mag. I already have a probe for temp, conductivity, and PH, and I don't really care about ammonia, CO2/O2 and potassium on a 24/7 basis. 500-600$ for the test unit, and 40$ or so a month for the discs is a pretty steep price if you ask me. If it tracked a couple more useful elements, like nitrate and phosphate I'd have a much easier time justifying the cost.
  16. Enderturtle

    Enderturtle Volunteer

    It would be awesome if I could monitor Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium.

    but for 40$ a month for discs...yeah pretty steep I agree.

    Me personally, I'd just do my own tests instead of paying 40$ a month to monitor those parameters. Save that 40$ for coral money :p

    I definitely know some people who would do it. It can almost seem like a monthly "subscription" to monitor these parameters. If it works the way they're claiming it to. They can definitely make money from Fish Stores that want to keep their corals healthy.

    Maybe a good percentage of hobbyists too but I feel like this product is too expensive for the everyday hobbyist.
  17. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Guest

    The fact they don't know the cost ($700-900 range?) makes me a bit leery of their ability to make a product. I am happy that they actually designed the thing though before going to kickstarter to ask for money to fund the manufacturing process.

    Also their comparison seems a bit biased, nearly $15000 in gear to measure all of that? Ok maybe, didn't realize there were in tank versions of monitoring some of those things... which might be why they're so expensive. but temperature? If you own an Apex or similar controller (and I'd be willing to bet money those who would purchase this do) you can monitor temperature for essentially "free", pH takes a year cost of probe, oxygen, ditto, compared to $30-50 x 12 months (that's $360-600 a year for those without a calculator), that's too pricy for my blood, however they do say to maintain optimal accuracy, so the question is how often do they really need to be replaced.

    I really hope they don't price themselves out of a product, I know there are those (like myself) who were in the pricy water pump (EcoTech) camp for a while but have gotten very tired of the fact that high price does not always mean sturdy product.
  18. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Guest

    The monthly pricing does seem kinda high but it is measuring 10 parameters. Though it seems that some are extrapolated figures and not actual measurements (Alk).

    If that is the actual price point, the market is gonna be small.

    They could have made smaller modular units that integrate with Apex and offer different parameters to measure, eg 1 module for the big 3, Alk,Ca,Mg. Another for other parameters like NO3 and Ph etc.
  19. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Guest

    Of those 10 parameters how many does would you really care about?
    For me, ph, Temp, those are nice but things that any aquarium controller can already measure, so I'm removing those from the table.
    Oxygen (ORP I'm guessing), kind of niche usage/care on that.
    Carbon Dioxide, ammonia, potassium, do we really care about these values? Ammonia when you're cycling, or if you get a huge die off, both of those instances you kind of know what's happening, and you could always get one of those slap on stickers inside the aquarium if you're really that unsure.
    Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium are the big ones I think most of us really care about. So then it becomes a matter of what would you do with that information? You could use that data to see how much any of them drops over a period of time (day, week, etc) to easily calculate dosing values, but you could also do that with regular test kits too. While hypothetically you could use that "real time" data to turn on/off dosing pumps as necessary, it does have a 15 minute window before recording new data, do you want to dose for 15 minutes straight? If you have a big tank you probably could handle that but a small tank? eh...

    So at the end of the data there really are only 3 parameters that are of terribly much usage to me (and one of those is predicted from pH & CO2 readings), is that worth $30-50 a month (plus the initial cost). For me it's not worth it. Now if they made a "lite" version, that you could just put into the tank for 15 minutes and get your Calc/Alk/Mag, and the test disc lasts for a year, then I'd be all over there.

    Not trying to put down the company mind you,what they were able to do is genius, I'm just brainstorming ideas with this thing out loud and coming to a conclusion that it is not a product I want at that price.
  20. jonmos75

    jonmos75 Supporting Member

    Oxygen sensor is not ORP, but dissolved O2 in the water Neptune has a probe & module for over $600.00....not worth it IMHO..

    I test once a month my potassium level but not a must....

    I agree with Alk/Ca/Mag...would also like to NO3 & PO4

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