New Info for the Feb '08 swap!! Please read!
- Thread starter bookfish
- Start date
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
One night stand... I like that analogy, I know I've gotten a few surprises that needed some medications.... errr from frags swaps that is 
Thales
Past President
There are a billion things that need to be done to keep the club simply running and there are no where near enough people to get them done. Even getting an agenda posted is problematic because of the time needed to go over it and get it posted. IMO, the single thing that would benefit the club right now would be for someone to take the job of secretary, so things like agendas and minutes could be posted so people not in attendance could know what was going on and step up to help where they can.
There are projects that have been on the table literally for years because there is not the manpower to get them going.
Having just gotten back from MACNA and seeing what other clubs are pulling off, I really would love it if more passionate people became truly involved. We really could do even more great things than we are doing now, but it will take effort.
IMO, the single thing that would benefit the club right now would be for someone to take the job of secretary, so things like agendas and minutes could be posted so people not in attendance could know what was going on and step up to help where they can. There are projects that have been on the table literally for years because there is not the manpower to get them going.
Having just gotten back from MACNA and seeing what other clubs are pulling off, I really would love it if more passionate people became truly involved. We really could do even more great things than we are doing now, but it will take effort.
Mr. Ugly
Past President
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]
I do like this as well, except how does "frag swap" turn into a "learn how to care for your babies" event?[/quote]
If frags swaps aren't seen as the be all and end all of a person's membership, there can be more attention to the propagation/parenting aspect.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]Having an early requirement for being a member certaintly does keep those who simply want on the gravy train, but it doesn't do anything about those who are members who had a recently tank crash, etc and just need to "fill'er up" again. The meeting requirement is a good step, but only if the meetings are going to be informative towards the propagation of said corals. [/quote]
The idea of completely restocking a tank, or filling up a new tank does get mentioned from time to time. We've been encouraging people to take a slower approach than that. BAR members have always been willing to help people in that situation, and a frag swap is not the best way to get up and running.
A part of encouraging people to attend meetings is to build a real community where people know each other as people, and not just as semi anonymous online handles. An active participating group sharing the same ideals has the best chance of making the club successful in it's mission.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]Corals are "short lived" ? I think it'll be more like a hybrid version between both, they have few "offspring" but they don't really care for them at all.[/quote]
Sorry, as a biologist and not a writer, I don't always get my point across very well. I meant that if we are to insert ourselves into the life cycles of these animals, creating and distributing a large number of frags would be analogous to the first strategy of reproduction - making tons of babies and hoping for the best. This is fine if resources are plentiful. But even the corals themselves are limited(or Limited, if you prefer).
As a club, we want to follow the second model. We want to focus our energies and resources to ensure the best chances for every frag to grow and mature.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]However, and not putting down what the club has done, it seems the club has pushed #1 more so than #2. Take example of the BAR donated corals, you took large colonies and and made many "off-spring" essentially killing the parent (in a way). Now i know the idea (or I hope it was) is that the club does #1, and the members do #2.[/quote]
Right! So we can do a lot more than just hope. That's the whole point behind some of the new things we've done
I do like this as well, except how does "frag swap" turn into a "learn how to care for your babies" event?[/quote]
If frags swaps aren't seen as the be all and end all of a person's membership, there can be more attention to the propagation/parenting aspect.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]Having an early requirement for being a member certaintly does keep those who simply want on the gravy train, but it doesn't do anything about those who are members who had a recently tank crash, etc and just need to "fill'er up" again. The meeting requirement is a good step, but only if the meetings are going to be informative towards the propagation of said corals. [/quote]
The idea of completely restocking a tank, or filling up a new tank does get mentioned from time to time. We've been encouraging people to take a slower approach than that. BAR members have always been willing to help people in that situation, and a frag swap is not the best way to get up and running.
A part of encouraging people to attend meetings is to build a real community where people know each other as people, and not just as semi anonymous online handles. An active participating group sharing the same ideals has the best chance of making the club successful in it's mission.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]Corals are "short lived" ? I think it'll be more like a hybrid version between both, they have few "offspring" but they don't really care for them at all.[/quote]
Sorry, as a biologist and not a writer, I don't always get my point across very well. I meant that if we are to insert ourselves into the life cycles of these animals, creating and distributing a large number of frags would be analogous to the first strategy of reproduction - making tons of babies and hoping for the best. This is fine if resources are plentiful. But even the corals themselves are limited(or Limited, if you prefer).
As a club, we want to follow the second model. We want to focus our energies and resources to ensure the best chances for every frag to grow and mature.
[quote author=sfsuphysics link=topic=2395.msg24402#msg24402 date=1189884161]However, and not putting down what the club has done, it seems the club has pushed #1 more so than #2. Take example of the BAR donated corals, you took large colonies and and made many "off-spring" essentially killing the parent (in a way). Now i know the idea (or I hope it was) is that the club does #1, and the members do #2.[/quote]
Right! So we can do a lot more than just hope. That's the whole point behind some of the new things we've done
northbay-reefer
Guest
[quote author=tuberider link=topic=2395.msg24536#msg24536 date=1190078789]
Northbay, I'm having trouble understanding your point. Were you offended by the "free corals" statements? You shouldn't be you seem to be an accomplished reefer.
I'm seriously having a hard time understanding your posts on this thread. I want to hear, what is it would you change? Why? It's very easy to critique, however to actually get involved and "do" is a different thing.
Yes, the funds from the members drive the club financially, but if it's simply a free for all then I'm out. Money is not the bottom line here. I've been in enough of those clubs (get as many members as possible, big raffles etc.), in fact if we did not have a frag swap, or raffles (I lose anyways) it's no sweat for me. I'm here to learn.
BTW, If I were a bettin' man I'd say (I don't know why....) that member attendance is much higher for the swaps than let's say a meeting on QTing corals.......
[/quote]
Tuberider, no I am not offended by anything in this thread and I hope that you and others are not by my comments either, am a techincal person so my communication tend to be direct, Anyway, you answered my question. Thanks
What I would do differently?, well' I think the message that the club is trying to change direction or moving forward is a good one and should be part of a required club meeting before the swap so all of the members have a better understanding of it, so when and if they attend the swap they atleast understand the purpose and maybe is more conciencious about taking the extra effort to take better care of the corals that they get at the swap. Since the club is requiring that the members attend atleast one meeting before the swap anyway.
Northbay, I'm having trouble understanding your point. Were you offended by the "free corals" statements? You shouldn't be you seem to be an accomplished reefer.
I'm seriously having a hard time understanding your posts on this thread. I want to hear, what is it would you change? Why? It's very easy to critique, however to actually get involved and "do" is a different thing.
Yes, the funds from the members drive the club financially, but if it's simply a free for all then I'm out. Money is not the bottom line here. I've been in enough of those clubs (get as many members as possible, big raffles etc.), in fact if we did not have a frag swap, or raffles (I lose anyways) it's no sweat for me. I'm here to learn.
BTW, If I were a bettin' man I'd say (I don't know why....) that member attendance is much higher for the swaps than let's say a meeting on QTing corals.......
[/quote]
Tuberider, no I am not offended by anything in this thread and I hope that you and others are not by my comments either, am a techincal person so my communication tend to be direct, Anyway, you answered my question. Thanks
What I would do differently?, well' I think the message that the club is trying to change direction or moving forward is a good one and should be part of a required club meeting before the swap so all of the members have a better understanding of it, so when and if they attend the swap they atleast understand the purpose and maybe is more conciencious about taking the extra effort to take better care of the corals that they get at the swap. Since the club is requiring that the members attend atleast one meeting before the swap anyway.
bookfish
Guest
[quote author=tuberider link=topic=2395.msg24536#msg24536 date=1190078789]
Northbay, I'm having trouble understanding your point. Were you offended by the "free corals" statements? You shouldn't be you seem to be an accomplished reefer.
I'm seriously having a hard time understanding your posts on this thread. I want to hear, what is it would you change? Why? It's very easy to critique, however to actually get involved and "do" is a different thing.
Yes, the funds from the members drive the club financially, but if it's simply a free for all then I'm out. Money is not the bottom line here. I've been in enough of those clubs (get as many members as possible, big raffles etc.), in fact if we did not have a frag swap, or raffles (I lose anyways) it's no sweat for me. I'm here to learn.
BTW, If I were a bettin' man I'd say (I don't know why....) that member attendance is much higher for the swaps than let's say a meeting on QTing corals.......
[/quote]
I believe what you're describing is a buyers club for coral masquerading as a club with a higher purpose. The BAR BOD is very much aware of this model and finds it detestable!
Northbay, I'm having trouble understanding your point. Were you offended by the "free corals" statements? You shouldn't be you seem to be an accomplished reefer.
I'm seriously having a hard time understanding your posts on this thread. I want to hear, what is it would you change? Why? It's very easy to critique, however to actually get involved and "do" is a different thing.
Yes, the funds from the members drive the club financially, but if it's simply a free for all then I'm out. Money is not the bottom line here. I've been in enough of those clubs (get as many members as possible, big raffles etc.), in fact if we did not have a frag swap, or raffles (I lose anyways) it's no sweat for me. I'm here to learn.
BTW, If I were a bettin' man I'd say (I don't know why....) that member attendance is much higher for the swaps than let's say a meeting on QTing corals.......
[/quote]
I believe what you're describing is a buyers club for coral masquerading as a club with a higher purpose. The BAR BOD is very much aware of this model and finds it detestable!
Mr. Ugly
Past President
Tom,
I think you’ve hit all the nails on their heads
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]
The cut off date has been in effect since the last frag swap, so their is no excuse for mebers that didnt keep their club membership current. I think it is fair the way it is.[/quote]
We’ve been establishing cut-off dates for various activities for a while now. And from time to time we post hints, reminders, and comments in the forums that it’s good for people to keep their memberships up to date.
No, we don’t explicitly say to renew in time for xyz event. We feel that people are responsible enough to keep track of their dues. Also, every time people log on to the home page, their membership expiration date is listed below their name. If they try to log on to the website, and their membership is expired, they get a notice in big red letters to that effect. There’s even a link on the site for people to check membership status.
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]
I dont think anything is free, members paid the dues, they buy raffles tickets, they attend events and they donate to events, […]
[/quote]
Exactly. As a member, you know that. A newcomer or someone more peripherally associated with the club may take a while to realize the same thing. Certainly the abundance of frags can give an impression otherwise.
The corals are not “free†or even cheap. And I’m not just speaking monetarily either. There is a very real ecological and environmental cost that far outweighs raffle ticket income from meetings. We don’t want our frag swaps to send the wrong message and lead people to devalue the lives of these animals. When that happens, there is a moral cost as well.
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]As for moving the club forward to support propragation, I totally agree with this,since this will sustain our hobby first of all, but most importanly it will lessen the strain on our reefs. But using the frag swap to promote this is like trying to send a message to 50 hungry people with delicious food in front of them, nice try, but good luck .[/quote]
The club has always been about propagation. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out the best way to get the message across. Perhaps de-emphasizing the frag swaps can help.
There is a kind of evilness about frag swaps. They can really get people focused on the most base things. “How much can I get for how much I bring?.†“How do I maximize my return on the swap?†“Did I get a high enough dollar value in trade for the 2 Rares that I brought?†The dollar sign as the lowest common denominator of member interaction can stand in the way of the club becoming what it deserves to be.
If you are a BAR member, there really is no need to get trapped into those kinds of thoughts.
Looking from the perspective of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, it would be ideal if BAR as a whole is able to aspire to and achieve Self Actualization.
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789] I think it is best to promote this at pre-frag-swap-meetings and make certain meeting a requirement to talk about the purpose of the BAR mission so that when the frag swap comes around everyone will know what their responsibilities are.
[/quote]
Yep, at meetings… on the forums… when hanging out with other members… when being a part of the BAR community. You got it
I think you’ve hit all the nails on their heads
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]
The cut off date has been in effect since the last frag swap, so their is no excuse for mebers that didnt keep their club membership current. I think it is fair the way it is.[/quote]
We’ve been establishing cut-off dates for various activities for a while now. And from time to time we post hints, reminders, and comments in the forums that it’s good for people to keep their memberships up to date.
No, we don’t explicitly say to renew in time for xyz event. We feel that people are responsible enough to keep track of their dues. Also, every time people log on to the home page, their membership expiration date is listed below their name. If they try to log on to the website, and their membership is expired, they get a notice in big red letters to that effect. There’s even a link on the site for people to check membership status.
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]
I dont think anything is free, members paid the dues, they buy raffles tickets, they attend events and they donate to events, […]
[/quote]
Exactly. As a member, you know that. A newcomer or someone more peripherally associated with the club may take a while to realize the same thing. Certainly the abundance of frags can give an impression otherwise.
The corals are not “free†or even cheap. And I’m not just speaking monetarily either. There is a very real ecological and environmental cost that far outweighs raffle ticket income from meetings. We don’t want our frag swaps to send the wrong message and lead people to devalue the lives of these animals. When that happens, there is a moral cost as well.
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789]As for moving the club forward to support propragation, I totally agree with this,since this will sustain our hobby first of all, but most importanly it will lessen the strain on our reefs. But using the frag swap to promote this is like trying to send a message to 50 hungry people with delicious food in front of them, nice try, but good luck
.[/quote]The club has always been about propagation. Sometimes it takes a while to figure out the best way to get the message across. Perhaps de-emphasizing the frag swaps can help.
There is a kind of evilness about frag swaps. They can really get people focused on the most base things. “How much can I get for how much I bring?.†“How do I maximize my return on the swap?†“Did I get a high enough dollar value in trade for the 2 Rares that I brought?†The dollar sign as the lowest common denominator of member interaction can stand in the way of the club becoming what it deserves to be.
If you are a BAR member, there really is no need to get trapped into those kinds of thoughts.
Looking from the perspective of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, it would be ideal if BAR as a whole is able to aspire to and achieve Self Actualization.
[quote author=northbay-reefer link=topic=2395.msg24490#msg24490 date=1190045789] I think it is best to promote this at pre-frag-swap-meetings and make certain meeting a requirement to talk about the purpose of the BAR mission so that when the frag swap comes around everyone will know what their responsibilities are.
[/quote]
Yep, at meetings… on the forums… when hanging out with other members… when being a part of the BAR community. You got it
northbay-reefer
Guest
MR Ugly, wow finally someone that speaks the same language ... whew for a while there I though I was out in left field all by myself.
Yes I agree with everything you said especially the evilness of the frag swap itself. The best thing to do is not even thinking about what one get for him or herself in return at the swap or raffle period, keep the spirit of giving/sharing alive and the spirit of propragation and understand the points behind the swap and the club.
Yes I agree with everything you said especially the evilness of the frag swap itself. The best thing to do is not even thinking about what one get for him or herself in return at the swap or raffle period, keep the spirit of giving/sharing alive and the spirit of propragation and understand the points behind the swap and the club.
LeviT
Guest
I like the idea of limiting the attendance at frag swaps a lot. I'm looking forward to meeting some folks as nuts about the hobby as myself. I'm going to attend the Dixon frag swap coming up so I can get an idea what they can be like but I don't plan on coming home with much of anything. I know I can handle Zoa's but I want to take it slow with some of the slower growing more sensitive corals so I don't end up killing a bunch of corals.
The original post sounded like a new member can't participate in the swap but they can still attend the function right?
The original post sounded like a new member can't participate in the swap but they can still attend the function right?
Mr. Ugly
Past President
[quote author=LeviTillie link=topic=2395.msg24595#msg24595 date=1190152545]The original post sounded like a new member can't participate in the swap but they can still attend the function right?
[/quote]
Levi, you definately can still attend. And I strongly encourage you to do so
[/quote]
Levi, you definately can still attend. And I strongly encourage you to do so
jkreefer
Guest
[quote author=Mr. Ugly link=topic=2395.msg24605#msg24605 date=1190153866]
[quote author=jkreefer link=topic=2395.msg24535#msg24535 date=1190078704]So I am asking, what can i do to help?[/quote]
Hang out on the BAR forums, read, learn about the club, and help brainwash others!
[/quote]
I already do that wayyyyy tooo much. I have offered to help with the mebership dues updating, and would like to do anything i can (from home) as I also live quite far away, but I still have not missed a meeting since i joined, and several before that.
[quote author=jkreefer link=topic=2395.msg24535#msg24535 date=1190078704]So I am asking, what can i do to help?[/quote]
Hang out on the BAR forums, read, learn about the club, and help brainwash others!
[/quote]
I already do that wayyyyy tooo much. I have offered to help with the mebership dues updating, and would like to do anything i can (from home) as I also live quite far away, but I still have not missed a meeting since i joined, and several before that.
bookfish
Guest
[quote author=LeviTillie link=topic=2395.msg24595#msg24595 date=1190152545]
I like the idea of limiting the attendance at frag swaps a lot. I'm looking forward to meeting some folks as nuts about the hobby as myself. I'm going to attend the Dixon frag swap coming up so I can get an idea what they can be like but I don't plan on coming home with much of anything. I know I can handle Zoa's but I want to take it slow with some of the slower growing more sensitive corals so I don't end up killing a bunch of corals.
The original post sounded like a new member can't participate in the swap but they can still attend the function right?
[/quote]
New members can't participate in the "general" picking rounds but no new member has ever left a BAR swap without corals. I can say no more than that on this issue. We strongly encourage new members to attend the event and they may even be surprised at how worthwhile it is.
I like the idea of limiting the attendance at frag swaps a lot. I'm looking forward to meeting some folks as nuts about the hobby as myself. I'm going to attend the Dixon frag swap coming up so I can get an idea what they can be like but I don't plan on coming home with much of anything. I know I can handle Zoa's but I want to take it slow with some of the slower growing more sensitive corals so I don't end up killing a bunch of corals.
The original post sounded like a new member can't participate in the swap but they can still attend the function right?
[/quote]
New members can't participate in the "general" picking rounds but no new member has ever left a BAR swap without corals. I can say no more than that on this issue. We strongly encourage new members to attend the event and they may even be surprised at how worthwhile it is.
G
GreshamH
Guest
[quote author=LeviTillie link=topic=2395.msg24635#msg24635 date=1190206757]
Thanks bookfish. Why doesn't anyone use signatures around here so I can actually call someone by name?
[/quote]
Some of us don't use handles but rather our first names, like Andy and I :lol:
Thanks bookfish. Why doesn't anyone use signatures around here so I can actually call someone by name?
[/quote]
Some of us don't use handles but rather our first names, like Andy and I :lol:
