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NEW SCA 150G PUMP AND PLUMBING QUESTIONS

cdhappy

cdhappy

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NEW SCA 150G PUMP AND PLUMBING QUESTIONS

Hello All,

So this weekend I'm setting up my new SCA 150. I'm very excited and grateful for this upgrade opportunity. That said, I've procrastinated a bit on ordering some fancy colored PVC for my plumbing (I'm planning on hard plumbing it)... but there's still time! (If I order it all up in the next day or so). Now I have some choice paralysis after reading too much online, so I'm reaching out for some input to help make a few final decisions.

Two Questions:
1) Which return pump?
2) What size overflow plumbing?

The Basics:
SCA 150, 60x24x24
Custom aluminum stand, 39" tall.
Synergy 16" ghost overflow.
Elite Aquatics 36" sump
2x MP40QWD (I like the idea of adding a gyre in the near future).
13W UV.
BRS Reactors (Occasional Roxx Carbon and GFO use).
Apex.
Kessil A360w lights.
NYOS Skimmer.
Refugium to follow, in a month or two.
I'd like to add a Calcium Reactor down the line sometime as I get more into SPS, but no rush.
Transferring my rock and most livestock from my current tank. Though I've sold or given away most of my fish recently, for a bit of a fish reset heading into the new tank. I think coming over from my current tank are Phil the Filefish, a schizophrenic orange spotted sand-sifter Goby, and a few Clown Gobies. (Admittedly, my QT is full :)
... and a partridge in a pear tree.

Overall this will be a 'Mixed Reef' tank. Euphillia, JB's, Chalice, a few Gorgonians, some Chalice and lots of other shiny little frags that I keep bringing home. I have an affinity for Anthias (and small/tiny fish), so there'll be lots of hiding places and surely to be a dozen or two Anthias in the tank.

Currently, on my 105G, I run two Sicce 3.0 (about 714GPH each) return pumps. It's my first time doing two return pumps and I really dig it. I'm planning on using one of the Sicce 3.0 pumps and adding a new Sicce 4.0 (about 900GPH) or a new Jebao DCQ 10000 (DC up to 2650GPH)

First Question:
Which return pump setup?
(1) Sicce 3.0 (714GPH) & (1) Sicce 4.0 (951GPH) for an overall 1665GPH
or
(1) Sicce 3.0 (714GPH) & (1) Jebao DCQ 10000 (DC up to 2650GPH, ran at about 35% = ~928GPH) for an overall GPH similar to the above combo (but retaining the flexibility to ramp up or down return GPH with the DC Jebao).

Random thoughts:
I'm planning on dual 3/4" hard plumbed return lines with Locline RFG's.
The Sicce are AC pumps and very quiet. I've been pleasantly surprised with the performance and how quiet they are.. quiet is something I MUST have (My condo is an open flat).
I had a Jebao DCT 8000 on my RSR and I was also satisfied with its performance and impressed by how quiet it was (I ran it at about 30%). Yes, Jebao is attractive because of the price, I have no ego about the brand and I (think) I'm cool with the quality for my purposes over the next few years.
I understand I'll probably replace the Sicce 3.0 sometime down the road, so maybe its replacement should be taken into consideration now (like a Sicce 4.0).
I'm not really interested in a $300+ pump like Vortech, RO, or the like (while I agree, they're 'better' pumps), for my purpose, I feel there's a $150ish pump that serves me greatly.

Second Question:
What size overflow plumbing.
The Synergy overflow has three downpipes: Main downpipe (that'll have the Gate valve), a second trickle downpipe, and an emergency downpipe.
Synergy recommends 1.5" for all downpipes and rates them up to 2500GPH.
If using 1" downpipes, Synergy states 1500GPH is max flow.

I think lots of flow (or turnover in this case) is awesome and would like that. Does that mean I NEED 1.5"?
I haven't read about many people using 1.5" plumbing (though, I'm merely an intermediate hobbyist), do many people use 1.5".

Thank you in advance for your input! -Charles
 
Are the bulkheads in your overflow box 1.5”
I would look at eheim pumps, or stick with the sicce.
Are the return lines going over the back edge or are there holes for those?
 
Ok, given your two choice for return pumps, I would probably go with the dual Sicce setup, that said I would also ask do you plan on running any manifold for stuff (reactors, etc) in the sump, if so I'd go with the second setup with the DC pump, and you can always dial it down until you get said reactors then crank up the flow later. That said, do want to point out a Sicce 3.0 and 4.0 and you're already into the $300 pump range, I realize you're reusing pumps... but just had to throw that out there ;) but for now I think your two 3.0s are more than fine. I like to run 1" returns personally, it just has less loss due to head pressure and it's a fairly standard size, but if 3/4" fits then go for it.

As for the overflow, I like to use 1.5" personally, but realize that it might be overkill. at the very least I'd use 1.5" for the emergency pipe. The others probably will be fine with 1" with the two Sicce pumps, I doubt you'll get anywhere close to 2500gph, much less 1500 gph with them in your tank. I would be concerned about getting your full siphon started with 1.5" plumbing (I think it comes with the tubes for the box doesn't it?) with the plumbing though. That said you can get lots of flow without lots of turnover, just use in tank pumps, but if down the road you want to up your game with beefier return pumps I would say 1.5" is recommended, or at the very least 1.25" but the reality is no one puts close to 2500 gph through their tank unless a) they have a HUGE tank or b) most of their flow is their return pump, there really is no benefit to doing that much flow (2500gph) through your sump with a tank your size though.

What you could do though, is hook it up "ugly white" 1" pvc, it's like $4 for 10' at home depot, and probably twice that with elbows, just to see if it's enough flow for you (probably will be), then you can always hack it out and put the pretty colored stuff in after the fact. That is assuming you have good access to the plumbing.
 
Thanks, Mike and Mike, for the input.

The back of the tank is drilled for the two returns. I was thinking that 3/4 would be more ideal pressure than 1" for the returns, but I'm glad I mentioned it. Would you guys recommend 1" for the returns?

The Synergy box (external part) has (3) 1.5" exit pipes (they hang down/out about 3" below the box). So I'd either continue them at 1.5", or reduce them to 1". Seems like 1.5" would be best in that it both leaves room to grow and has plenty of extra room for emergency overflow (if needed). Assuming the gate valve will allow for adequate siphon, but I guess I can always adjust the height of the downpipes (in the overflow box) if really needed.

The ugly white idea has something to it (let's call it Storm Trooper). I've thought that after getting it all done and down the road a few months, I'd want to redo the hard plumbing because in hindsight there's always those "if I was to do it over again" ideas... The Storm Trooper may have legs...
 
+1 on what Mike said, reducing sizes doesn't really benefit you at all. Sure it'll cost a bit more for the 1.5" gate valve versus 1" gate valves, and you want the fancy colored PVC pipe then again it'll cost more for that in 1.5" than 1" but it shouldn't be that much of a difference in cost, it really depends on how nice of parts you get, the difference in price changes based on that, but in the grand scheme of things plumbing is cheap... well unless you go with those super high end double union valves :D
 
As for the siphon, you absolutely can get a siphon regardless of pipe size and flow rate, the problem occurs if a pump goes off (cleaning, whatever) the siphon on the main drain might have a hard time starting back up with the gate valve settings you have. Granted this is at most a superficial problem, if too much water goes into the overflow the siphon will start so it's not a flood risk, but if not enough water goes in you'll get more sound/bubbles coming out of that main drain, but it should be easy enough to restart by putting your hand over the drain pipe in the sump until the water rises in the overflow box high enough.
 
I forgot what I did with my Synergy, but I think I converted it from the 1.5" down to 1" right after the union. This allows me to keep the 1.5" at the box and if I decide to convert back to the 1.5" later then it's possible (just have to buy a new union). For return I went with the COR-20, which is currently running at 40% IQ, not feeding any of the manifolds. Haven't plumbed anything peripheral to the manifolds yet, so have been considering removing them altogether. All flow in the tank is handled by two gyres.

As for return, I went with two 1/2" on the back wall, which are fed by 3/4" PVC. The COR is attached via barb to 1" bulkhead through the sump, so I can technically step up to 1" down the line as needed, but it's currently more than capable of handling it. My plumbing is also not centered over the middle of the tank, so I added a gang valve to the closer side so that I can divert flow more evenly through both return sides.
backplumbing.jpg
 
Thanks for the info @Ibn, always nice to have another first-hand account. Your setup looks great!

So I'm pretty sure about 1.5" downpipes and 1" returns at this point and probably adding the Sicce 4.0... I'll keep you all posted. Thanks again!
 
I took another look at the pipes now since it's been awhile since I did them. Used 1.5" to 1" right after the unions on the overflow box. As for the return from the sump, I used 1" until the connection to the back of the tank. I downsized it there at the last part from 1" to 0.5". The returns are locline which are capped with 1/2" RFG.
 
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