new tank plans, help me plan it

Discussion in 'DIY' started by HiFidelity, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    :D That is the majority of the reason I've heard people go with 80 over 40. Anything other than white! Although they do sell colored PVC (or you could make your own) but it's quite a bit pricier for stuff that for the most part is going to be hidden.
     
  2. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    when it's done right you should not be able to see any plumbing :p
     
  3. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    I highly recommend going with a DC pump (for the aforementioned benefits), schedule 80 parts (you won't need a whole lot and can get them locally at Ewing or Urban Farmer or BRS), 1 1/2" drain and 1" return sounds about right (you can put ball valves to control the drain and return flow).

    Good luck with the build. :)
     
    neuro likes this.
  4. Vincerama2

    Vincerama2 Evil Overlord


    LOL, I suggesting not spending TOO much time planning!

    Wifebane is going onto 3 years now and it's still dry. But I HAVE been working on it. It should have water in it very soon. Trying to do everything perfect is just me procrastinating. Better have a pretty good tank set up, than a perfect tank that never happens!

    V
     
  5. Vincerama2

    Vincerama2 Evil Overlord


    Don't ABS and PVC bulkheads use different sized holes? I used ABS for Wifebane because it came with ABS bulkheads originally (the threads are chewed up and the gaskets are not "fresh" so I replaced them). I saw a BRS video where the guy mentions that PVC bulkheads are great if you are drilling the holes for PVC bulkheads, but most pre-drilled tanks use a size suitable for ABS.

    OF course, measure and ask your supplier, but just something to keep in mind.
     
  6. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Not sure if that is ABS versus PVC, or if it is schedule 40 versus schedule 80, or if it is the manufacturer.
    But absolutely, the bulkheads can use different size holes!
     
  7. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member


    +1

    Although it is possible to re-hole the tank, going with a BH that fits is much easier. Also smart to do new BHs. You don't know what stresses the previous owner inflicted upon them. Very cheap insurance.

    'Somewhere' I ran across a comparison of mechanical strength of Sch 40 vs. Sch 80. There is not much difference. I'm not talking about pressure, more like how tough is it to break a fitting or pipe by moving it.

    Supporting the pipe to reduce twisting and such will go a long way toward a safe plumbing job. The BeanAnimal thread on RC has some great shots of behind and under tank supports.
     
  8. Marc

    Marc Guest

    I deal alot with schedule 80 fittings at work and in an industrial setting sch 80 is standard. Besides the higher pressure rating, they hold up to flex better than 40. For example - we recently re-piped our works RO filtration system and storage tanks. All have been running for 17 years. In the process of cutting old pipe away, we had no idea that part of the systems control panel had shifted. Part of the anchors had rusted away. Anyways, once we cut that section of pipe that was under flex/tension, it almost seemed like it exploded. You definitely dont want any TYPE of pipe under that condition, but I don't think sch 40 would have held up as long.
     
  9. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    So I might have hit a snag, while I was at home depot the other day I decided I should stroll through the plumbing isle just to see what 1" & 1.5" 90's looked like and once I had them in my hand the 1" was cool but the 1.5" is so bulky it immediately crushed my hopes of having a super narrow overflow box, I mean this thing is thick.

    I have one of 2 options;

    A. cut the 90 down an inch or so, not sure if that's a good idea
    B. do a herbanimal overflow and instead of one 1" stand pipe on a gate valve with 1.5" wide open emergency pipe, what if I did three 1" pipes, one on a gate valve & 2 open emergency pipes (tank's acrylic afterall so I don't care if I have to drill 12 more holes)

    I figure if I slightly shave the 1" 90's down I will still get to fit them in a <3" deep overflow box.

    I was going to order bulkheads & some RO/DI accessories tonight then I realized my bulkhead sizes & piping had to go back to the drawing board...
     
  10. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Multiple pipes seems like the way to go.
    Remember that 1 x 1.5 inch is actually 2.25 times the area as 2 x 1 inch though.

    Although if you want to go crazy:
    Two on a gate valve, in full siphon.
    One as the trickle overflow.
    Two emergency pipes.

    Another (fairly crazy) option is to make rectangular pipes out of acrylic.
    That would be really low profile. But obviously a lot more work, and risk of leaks if done wrong.
     
  11. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    Ddon't forget this tank is only 45 gal.

    I chucked the idea of running more flow through return with that elaborate semi-closed loop plumbing I had planned, instead I decided to run a single 1" return for now to one side into split locline and a single jebao on the opposite end. Pump will be Ocean Runner 2500 (till I get dc adjustable) which will push 400-450 gph max (head loss included) so considering 1" can flow 700 gph, 3 of them is way plenty. 1.5" was planned to be overkill since it was a single emergency pipe.
     
  12. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

    It's important to distinguish between drains that are full siphon and those that are not. At full siphon a 1" line can handle in excess of 1200 gph. On my 120g. with Eheim 1262 return pump (900gph at no head), I have the 1" closed down about half. I see no reason to upsize to 1.5" pipe unless you just like big pipes!

    If the drain is not full siphon, bigger is better. It reduces the sound because there is less competition for space in the pipe as water and air try to go down. You want the water to be laminar flow close to the pipe and the center available for air space. Anything else makes noise, turbulence and LOTS of bubbles. As you can see, this is not an efficient use of pipe.

    To reduce the size of the elbows you can get a 'street ell'. This has one male end and one female end. Standard fittings are both female. To reduce size more, you can cut off some of the male fitting. The connection on the inside of the tank doesn't need to be absolutely water tight.

    To reduce visual impact you can either paint the fittings black or get black PVC.
     
  13. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    What's up John, insightful info :)

    I've decided on three 1" drains;

    1 pipe will be at full siphon and adjusted via gate valve
    2nd & 3rd pipe will be wide open with the 90 turned up and 3rd pipe will be slightly higher than 2nd, so basically 2nd will have a trickle and 3rd will be completely dry and will only see water if one day sh* hit the fan somehow though I will suspect that 3rd pipe will never see water.

    No piping will be visible I'm covering it all with a solid blue 12" overflow box I'm building.

    Thank you so much for pointing out the street ell, I had not looked into that yet, definitely an improvement over a regular ell.

    BRS order happening tonight.
     
  14. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    :)

    Yeah, 3 x 1-inch will be plenty. Even the emergency is probably overkill, but why not.
    In fact, you could probably go with 4 x 3/4 inch easy. (two for full siphon)
     
  15. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    Mark that's just crazy talk, 5-6 pipes behind the tank? haha

    I want to stick with a single gate valve (single full siphon pipe), a few fittings, a float valve and some ABS bulkheads totaled up to $60+ when I was looking at BRS last night. I haven't even started buying piping and the actual bulk of the plumbing. To make matters worse for my wallet, I have to spend at least $200 on some tools & such just so I can raise the stand 4" :mad:
     
  16. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    No .... Crazy is 7 big pipes through a wall, and still having flow issues. :eek:
    [​IMG]

    If you are near Union City, I have quite a few woodworking tools.
     
    neuro likes this.
  17. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    oooo that looks like it was fun to build.

    Thanks for the offer, quite generous of you. I'm basically cutting & gluing some plywood to the frame and all I need to do is make perfect cuts and then drill pocket holes. If you have a pocket hole jig that would be awesome, I'm actually very close, I'm practically right next to CSUEB
     
  18. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    looking at that pic again...

    A plumber friend of mine told me to stay away from the blue glue and he believed that it got brittle after a while. I wasn't going to take this as fact but are there really different types of pvc glue? some better than others?
     
  19. Marc

    Marc Guest

    Looks kind of like the purple primer and clear glue combo


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Yes, it is purple primer and clear glue. Standard stuff.
    Nope, no pocket hole jig. But I have a biscuit joiner and some dowel jigs. All depends on the joint you want.
     

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