Pump suggestions for Piper

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Piper, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    Continuing the conversation for Piper here to remove it from the sponsor's forum.

    Charlie,

    To give you some perspective, I have a MP40 and a Coralife 5800 system on my 150 gallon tank.
    It's a LOT of flow and I've had to control the flow so I don't get sand storm.

    http://reefbuilders.com/2011/08/01/coralife-dc-wavemaker-pumps/
    http://www.coralifeproducts.com/Files/Product/wavemaker-instructions.pdf

    The Coralife's are pretty cool. Independent controller with a "night sensor". It works well. Only thing I don't like about it is the lack of magnet mounts. It uses suction cups that can fall off. Instead, I used Koralia wet/dry side magnets to attach them.

    The 5800 is LOTS of flow, but you could get the 2600 system instead of a MP40 (if you're on a budget).
    MP40 does 3000GPH.

    Just a thought.
     
  2. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    I'm not promoting the Coralife product one way or another. Just giving another option.
    MP40 is nice and ideally, I'd need 2 or 3 in my tank. Maybe after I sell some zoas to help fund it. ^_^
     
  3. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    Thanks, Ron! No problems with the Coralife clicking?
     
  4. Kmooresf

    Kmooresf Supporting Member

    FWIW, I too am very conscious about noise.........Tunze pumps are VERY good and SILENT!! I have 4 very large Tunze (6105) at their highest settings on a controller. No noise at all..........no clicking and no ramping up or down. I have seen and heard the votechs. I love them..........they do amazing things with flow, but are quite noisy IMO. Not too bad at low settings, but if you ramp them up to full power........you know it. If I still had my skimmer in the same room, I would probably not worry too much about the extra noise, but in a quiet room......I think you would be very aware. Just a thought.

    AS for how many? The vortechs do pretty good, and you might be able to get away with just the one MP40. I don't have one, so maybe someone else could chime in about that? (BTW......I am writing about the comments on the other thread from Jess's new coral shipment)
     
  5. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    The Coralife is definitely not as loud as the MP40. My MP40 is hidden a bit by my skimmer & overflow drain noise. But I can still notice the hum. I've set it no longer on RAMP UP/DOWN as I can hear it speed & slow down. It's because they put the rotor/moving element on the outside and another magnet/coupler on the inside. It's the "inertial spinning/whirling" that you hear.

    Coralife's don't click because they are DC-controlled and are like the Koralia DC wavemakers. They get rampped up and ramped down. But since the propellers are inside the water, you don't hear the "whining" much compared to the MP40. I am guessing your Reef Angel just turns ON/OFF the AC-powered Koralias (i.e. you don't have the DC-controllable Koralias). That's why you hear the clicking.

    That's why even though I have an old RedSea Wavemaker Pro, I don't use it in my tank because it only switches ON/OFF. No ramp up/down.


    Also, the clicking is because the Koralia is trying to get the propeller to spin the right direction. Often times it starts up in reverse, that's why there is that rubber "stopper" there. It's designed to make the propeller "suck" in the rubber if it spins the wrong way and rotates the propeller just enough so it reverses and spins forward.
     
  6. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    The koralia Magnums are a lot better than the small ones. I have them on an on/off wavemaker, and there is no click.
    I think they have an electronic start, instead of the little rubber thing.
    They are quieter overall than the Tunze I have also.
    But they have a rather weak magnet. I have a 1/2 inch wall, and ended up making internal brackets to hold them.
     
  7. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    Explain electronic start in regards to a ac aquarium power head please.
     
  8. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    There are ways to "soft start" both AC and DC motors. DC is usually easy. Either ramp up the voltage (say from 0volts DC up to 12 volts DC) or use PWM/PCM (0% duty cycle to 100% duty cycle). Goal is to let the mechanics (motor rotors) catch up with the demand forces (the 12volt torque).

    AC is harder to control. Probably uses some type of SCR or triac to chop the AC waveforms and send partial AC pulses like a PWM.
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

    This is all in attempt to let the "heavy" mechanical parts catch up with the electrical power. Doing this helps reduce the rattle/torque ripples, etc. kind of like how a manual transmission clutch operates.
     
  9. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Vortechs or Tunze.
    A single MP40 would not be enough on a 150. Would need 2-3 MP40s IMO.

    I'd go for a combination of Tunze (controllable or non-controllable) + a pair of Vortechs. If the sides of your tank are exposed, all Tunze may be a better idea. 2-3 6105s on a 7095/7096/Apex/Other controller. Or... 2x6105 and an MP40 in the back middle for some variable flow if that's your desire. Or a Sea Swirl off the back?

    If $ is an issue, you can always shove huge Koralias behind your rockscape...Wouldn't bother with the controllable ones but they'll definitely eliminate dead spots.

    Disclosure: No experience with the Coralife unit and I typically like to skip to the good stuff since you'll end up wanting it later anyway ;). Sounds like a major upgrade so I would do it once, do it right. So many possibilities...Not that I'm itching for an upgrade myself or anything!
     
  10. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    Not sure what tank piper has. Didn't look. But if you are referring to my 150... I have an MP40 and the Coralife 5800. That is like 8800gph of flow (potentially).

    Only two are on 100%, so I'm more at like 3000+3000+1500 (about 7500gph).
    ;)

    Oh, tank dimensions 48.24.30H
     
  11. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Hah, right... This thread is strange because you started it and it's for Piper... If he has a similar tank, my recommendation stands :)

    Chicken has a Tunze package for $450... 2x6200 and a 7095. I'd rather buy used Tunze than the Coralife unit but that's just me being me
     
  12. zeroinverse

    zeroinverse Guest

    iCon,
    You're probably right about Tunze being better. At the time, I had two Koralia magnum 8s and they are a beast! Way too much flow in my tank. So I swapped them out for the coralife since I got a good deal on them used off RC.
     
  13. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    I believe Charlie has 65 gallon tank, IIRC, right, Charlie?
     
  14. Piper

    Piper Guppy

    Yep, I have have a standard 65 gallon. 36 x 18 x 24. Using the EcoTech Flow Calculator it says I should be OK with one. I looked at using a MP40 and an MP10 and it seems like it might be too much flow.

    My two main goal with looking into an MP40 is to 1) get rid of the clicking Koralias and 2) reduce the number of power heads in the tank. I can live with one MP40 on the side of the tank if I can get rid of at least two of the Koralias.

    Ron - Didn't you say you were selling frags? Maybe I can come over and buy a frag from you and listen to your MP40 at the same time. You're not too far from me.

    ~Charlie
     
  15. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    2xMP40 then :)
     
  16. saltwatersig

    saltwatersig Volunteer

    Well ...I used to have 4 controllable tunzes in my 100 gal tank (two per side opposite of the others ) and overall very happy with the random flow throughout the tank.

    When it came time to upgrade I decided to go with 2 mp40's instead due to the amount of room the tunzes used on the inside of my display. Is there more noise ......that depends , the tunzes made a low vibration as they ramped up and down (vibration on glass ).......the mp40's have a low pitched whine but I keep mine at appx 80% at the highest flow and they really don't even qualify to me as being loud in any way . Just my observation.
     
  17. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    What zeroinverse said.

    Plus I think the TRIAC control can keep the rotation correct, as well as soft start.

    A pretty good article here on general soft start and pumps:
    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Power_Electronics
     
  18. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Just a quick summary of my opinion on the ones I have tried.

    MPXX:
    Pros:
    - Small wet side.
    - Unlikely to get calcium buildup and stall.
    - Nicely programmable, with easy batter backup option.
    - Quiet enough - if aligned.
    Cons:
    - One direction, out from glass.
    - EXPENSIVE.
    - Not super-quiet, especially if it vibrates out of alignment.
    - Needs space outside the aquarium.

    Non programmable Koralia Magnum:
    Pros:
    - Cheapest of the 3
    - Quietest of the 3
    - Magnum 8 can generate a TON of flow.
    - Very quiet start up, so usable on an on/off type wavemaker.
    Cons:
    - Poor magnet
    - Tends to get calcium buildup and stall, so needs a lot of cleaning.
    - Rather large in the tank.
    - Magnet on impeller shaft can split. Replacements are cheap though.

    Non programmable Tunze:
    Pros:
    - Well built.
    - The ball type clamp is small and versatile.
    - Great magnet mount
    Cons:
    - Quiet.
    - Subject to calcium buildup, but seems a bit better than Koralia
    - Way to noisy at startup, so unusable on an on/off type wavemaker.
     
  19. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    That's pretty sweet. I didn't realize something like this existed. It just confirmed what I was assuming about being more than enough flow for a 40B with two MP10's and I won't have to use them anywhere near full capacity, which I was planning. No constant humming to be worried about. :)
     
  20. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    its the ramping up and down that does the most noise with Vortechs IME.
     

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