Reefer 170 reborn

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by Eugene, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. kinetic

    kinetic Supporting Member

    Looks good. Hope it turns out well!

    Any thoughts on where the dinos may have come from? Ever get Algae Barn chaeto? I recently got a fresh batch of that, left it in a sterilized bucket with new salt mix and a powerhead that only was used for mixing new water, and dinos grew. Anyway, just curious ;)
     
  2. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Have no idea - I don't have any cheato and always trying to dip frags in peroxide before putting in my tank to prevent algae.
     
  3. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    What a difference in coral's health after I started to dose phosphates!!! Finally I've got good PE and colors are getting back. But algae also coming with vengeance - even bubble algae appeared from somewhere - I didn't put anything new in my tank for last 2-3 month so it was sitting and waiting for some phosphates.
     
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  4. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Horror is here - any ideas about beating this thing without crashing whole tank? Sand replacement? Confirmed dino under microscope.

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  5. ashburn2k

    ashburn2k Webmaster Staff Member

    stir sand, feed less and check your water source.. good luck.
     
  6. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Do it all the time - every week vacuum sand, had 0 nitrates - 0 phosphates, corals struggled but algae was under control.
    I started to dose nitrates and phosphates to get at least some readings and this thing started to consume nutrients like crazy, but corals definitely appreciate nutrients. BTW - I might have had semi-exhausted DI resin and some silica in the water - had diatoms but dino was under control. Recently changed filters and new DI resin - diatoms gone but dinos exploded. I read some article on r2r about dosing silica and growing diatoms to compete with dinos but I feel like it's too much.
    I feel like something needs to be done besides sand cleaning.
     
  7. ashburn2k

    ashburn2k Webmaster Staff Member

    it just occured to me that @kinetic has the same tank as you do and the same lights? and he was battling. the same problem just not long ago... maybe it's something about your tanks?
     
  8. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Same luck! :) Seriously, I'm sure there is nothing about light or tanks - it's just a peace of glass and some LEDs.
     
  9. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

    Siphon is out. Not with a vacuum. Just straight siphon it with some sand out. New sand it cheap. If it keeps coming back then maybe try Dino x.
    Are you still adding nitrates/phosphates?
     
  10. rygh

    rygh BOD

    +1 on siphoning directly, top layer of sand and all.
    Or like you said, ALL of the sand. Go bare bottom until things clear up, then add sand again.

    I can confirm from personal use that Dino-X will not harm corals, and kills normal algae.
    But never tried it on Dinos.

    You could try dosing other bacteria, like ECO balance. But I am skeptical.

    My sympathies.
    When problems like these stick around despite all the things you try, it is SO frustrating!!
    :mad::mad:
     
  11. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Hi Mike! Thats exactly what I do - siphon it every week but it comes back in couple days. Thinking about DinoX but its sold out everywhere.
    And yes - I still dose nitrates and phosphates, no nopox anymore. Today tested params - 1 ppm nitrates, 0.003 phosphates (1ppb on hanna). Dosing some potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate left from my planted tank past :)




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  12. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Interesting - 5 mins ago Dino X was sold out on BRS, but available now. Ordering some...


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  13. kinetic

    kinetic Supporting Member

    By far the best read about dinos:
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

    That thread covers every type of dinoflagellate. You can even post a photo from your microscope there and get the exact way to beat it.

    A few kinds of dinoflagellate are quite easy to beat, once you have the correct ID (like just running a UV). There is one particular strain, the one I have, that is close to impossible to beat.

    A few things to note:
    1. Dinoflagellates outcompete other types of algae when there is an imbalance or low amount of no3/po4
    2. Even reading 0 on no3/po4 doesn't mean there isn't any, just means dinos are consuming them a lot.
    3. Dosing more NO3/PO4 will just keep feeding dinos. Once you're at an imbalance and dinos are there, they will not let other algae start growing. One possible method is to add a crap ton of algae (macro or otherwise) that will begin outcompeting dinos. But there's a high chance that trying to feed other algae will never work, and you'll just continue growing dinos because they're really good at competing for resources, especially when well established.
    4. Has nothing to do with sand specifically. It's everywhere.
    5. Dinos can kill corals by attaching to them. Even more, when they die or are disturbed, they will also start killing stuff. Fish don't seem to be bothered, but weaker snails/inverts would be. My Anemones, however, pulled through but were definitely affected.

    The most promising thing I had going was I used DinoX at first to start killing the dinos. It works well after about 3-5 days. The instructions are weird, but just keep dosing and don't run carbon so the amount keeps getting more concentrated until they're all gone. You can then try to grow chaeto and start dosing no3/po4 so that their levels are high and even, and consistent. At this time you can do a big water change + carbon. The idea is that you can grow the non-dinos faster than the dinos can come back and take a foothold. Ultimately it will be a battle of algae. DinoX shouldn't actually kill Chaeto, but some say it does.

    At the end of the day, nothing worked for me (6 months or more). My tank was struggling to keep no3/po4 up, and the more I dosed, the more dinos grew. Ultimately someone on BAR just said to go super lean with a scrubber or NoPox and just not let anything grow. So I tried it, and it worked. Now I dose 2.5ml of NoPox daily (using a dosing pump), and I have no dinos anymore. I get a tiny bit of algae but that's feeding the snails well. I do get a white dusting of bacteria? growth on the glass. But everything looks good. I even have decent colors in my SPS now. I do, however, dose Amino Acids (AcroPower, though it could just be snake oil) and I spot feed reef chilli 2 - 3 times a week.
     
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  14. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Lean didn't work for me before - the algae was under control exactly as you described - slight brown sand, but corals struggle, color was pale, no or bad PE on SPS.
    I read a lot about dinos and looks like I have worst of it - amphidinium. At least that what it looks like under microscope. Also it go under sand at night and back when light are on - that exactly what this this strain is doing. I'm thinking to get rid of sand and dose Dino X at the same time, than after it all settled add new sand. In our small tanks this is easy doable.
     
  15. Ranjib Dey

    Ranjib Dey Guest

    Dont dose DinoX. Just get rid of sand, lower down the power head close to the bottom. And do water changes religiously, every week, 10-15% and it should recover. Irrespective of how dino or cyano is introduced, they stay persistent because other bacteria's are not able to take hold.
     
  16. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

    I think you are feeding the Dino with the nitrate and phosphate. I think you should stop.
     
  17. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Than corals starve unfortunately - I kept very lean nutrients for a year and starved couple sps to death - one was red table acro I’ve got from you... Once I stop dosing I see immediate reaction from corals - no polyp extension, pale colors.


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  18. Eugene

    Eugene Supporting Member

    Ranjib, Why are you against DinoX? I’m slowly getting rid of the sand already, however at some point I would like to add new one, and without some serious treat it will come back later.


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  19. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

    I think you were stripping too many nutrients from the water with all your chemical filtration before, hence the need to add them back in. Are you still using gfo/phosban/etc...?
     
  20. Ranjib Dey

    Ranjib Dey Guest

    because its an additive to control something that you want the tank to have an innate capability. Also because its very common problem in this age of the tank (1 year), its not matured yet, you will have dino, cyano etc.. but all of that can be addressed without the persistent addition of chemical or biological additives. You should let the tank find its balance. The only thing you should try to do is not to change too many things at the same time and be consistent with nutrient export. Be it refugium or water change or something else, but the tank needs quite some time to establish its own microbial population, and that, in turn, will dictate how much things you can add. Chemical or biological additives are good only for rare but effective short-term relief. For example, if your tank is completely covered up with cyano, employ Chemiclean in the beginning and then work on natural means for dealing. Using chemiclean every month will never solve the problem, in turn it will kill its natural microbial population and never let that settle.
     
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