Snails become paralyzed?

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by iCon, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Purchased snails from multiple sources - All were healthy. Some went into 'Tank A', some into 'Tank B'. The snails in Tank A are alive and well today. The snails from Tank B became 'paralyzed' as soon as they went into the tank. They were alive but didn't move much. I would place them against the glass and some would attach and some would not. Those that attached didn't move.

    What happened here? Water parameters in check, acclimated snails in both tanks the same way.
  2. Thales

    Thales Past President

    What are the Mg levels in both systems?
  3. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Admittedly, one system goes untested...For anything. This system is the one they survived in.

    The system where they locked up gets tested maybe once a month and during this occurrence, nothing seemed abnormal. Don't recall but the numbers weren't noticeably off. System also has a pair of cleaner shrimp and nassarius snails roaming around. Snails that locked up and died were trochus.

    How high would Mg need to be to have an effect?

    FWIW, just did a Mg test now and reading was 1380. Nothing has changed since snail incident (dosing, water change schedule etc).
  4. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Temp the same in both tanks?
  5. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Both controlled by Apexes and no email alarms were sent at the time. Systems are maintained at 78* +/- .5*

    I've just never seen paralysis in snails. It was literally like my tank water contained anethesia when they went in. My first thought was stray voltage but I feel like other things would show signs of stress and I can't test for this.

    Existing snails had been in the system for quite some time. A few trochus and astrea were over 4 years old from someone else's tank previously. :(
  6. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Hrm, that's odd.
  7. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    lol, I'd say so. I was hoping Gresham could chime in...The guy knows something about everything and anything. :D
  8. Thales

    Thales Past President

    Did you move some snails between tanks to see what happened?

    Mg can be an anesthetic for mollusks, and it might not be an absolute level, but a relative level. What is the Mg level in the 'good tank?
  9. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Thanks for the replies Rich - Much appreciated!

    I moved a few from the good tank into the one where they froze and the same thing happened. I left them in the bad tank thinking that moving them back and forth would create more stress.

    Not sure on Mg levels in the good tank but will check. Haven't changed anything on this tank either so levels are likely similar to before. You're probably onto something with relative levels of Mg. Both tanks get weekly 15% water changes so I feel like this would keep Mg somewhat in check unless the Salifert kit is way off - Didn't calibrate. Salifert kit is pretty new and corals seem fine.
  10. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    Rich beat me to the Mg question :)

    I suspect that....

    I sent an email to someone trying to get clarification on something before I post it. If he agrees, I'll post it :)
  11. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Thanks ^

    I'm curious as to the relationship and/or tipping point. Thinking about it though, if it's not a certain level but relative Mg, wouldn't the snails existing in the system long term be ok? The increase would have been over time - I didn't exactly dump 2 gallons of Mg in the tank :D
  12. BAYMAC

    BAYMAC Guest

    I really do not know the lethal dose for snails, but I must say its gotta be higher then 1400 ;)

    Boomer just sent me back an email saying some snails put of chemicals that effect other snails. This is the first time I have head this one, but Boomer is one hell of a walking Encyclopedia so now I am waiting on papers to read about it :lol:

    Are they froze, or dead?
  13. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    They were frozen and then they died over the course of a few days (less than a week). Some attached, some didn't. Those that attached did not move from their spot. 4+ year old trochuses and astreas down the drain which led to the need for new snails. Hah, there was some sense of achievement in that....Definitely was hoping they'd see the upgrade :D

    FWIW - Someone asked about fish.. All fish are fine..As are the shrimp. Mini fuge of macros is fine. *Shrug*
  14. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Mg in tank with still living snails = 1200
    Mg in tank with frozen snails = 1380

    Salifert kit with an expiration of 12/2014...Test numbers seem likely accurate.
  15. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    This was really bugging me so I did a bunch more testing.

    Tank A parameters 'Snail keeping tank':

    Tank B parameters 'Snail killing tank':

    Took a snail from Tank A and put it into Tank B. Acclimated as usual. Snail is still attached to the glass and seems to be chugging along just fine... Gofigure.

    Re: the mentions of relative Mg... Do the farms/wholesalers/retailers keep them in super low Mg conditions? Could a jump from say, 600 Mg to double that do the deed? Not sure what else it could be =
  16. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Would one parameter really cause that? I thought it was all relative to the other parameters (alkalinity, calcium)? Maybe it OD'd on Mg? LoL. I have no idea.
  17. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Snail froze up after 2 days. It was alive and would respond if I touched it but it wasn't strong enough to attach to the glass, rock, etc.

    Removed and put it back in the original tank and it's doing fine after a day or so. I guess my Mg is a lot higher than it's reading on the Salifert kit...
  18. Thales

    Thales Past President

    The margin of error on Mg test kits is like 150 -200.

    Denzil - Mg has anesthetic properties for Mollusks.
  19. iCon

    iCon Supporting Member

    Yup, and Salifert is supposed to be one of the better ones =. Thanks Rich.

    So if we assume an Mg test kit reading of 1320-1380 is actually 1500-1600, it could easily be right at the tipping point for snails. That would explain why established snails kicked the bucket as 15-1600 gradually came about. IIRC, ~1600 is the tipping point for bryopsis too.
    Curious as to why nassarius seem unaffected.
  20. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    Ah, didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know. Are there any concerns for shrimp too?

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