Surviving Mr.D

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by ofzakaria, Mar 2, 2019.

  1. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Btw same risk can also follow digital ones. Drift in any equipment can occur due to its components decaying and changing property over time. My Milwaukee after calibration will read a brand new 35ppt calibration as 36..
    Here are some useful recommendations I have used over the years to yield best possible accuracy.
    - Use red sea or another one that is made to be calibrated with rodi.
    - Have both rodi solution and the refractometer in room temp for 30min minume so both have the same temp. Also make sure you know what the temp range your refractometer is spec'ed for. Every refractometer have a temp range tolerance, make sure your are withen this temp range otherwise refractometer will be out of its temp compensation range.
    - add the rodi to the refractometer and leave it for at least 10min.
    - now read and calibrate the refractometer.
    - after calibration, while clean the lenses and as an extra step you can use a 35ppt solution that you trust to see where you are.
    - alwayes rinse the prism es of the refractometer with rodi solution after you use it. Salt creep and leftover salt water will impact the prism
    - store your rodi in its package to protect it. Falls and hits on the device can shift the presim and impact its accuracy.

    If you want to use refractometer that use 35ppt calibration solution, it's also ok just follow the rest if the comments mentioned above and alwayes rinse the prism after you calibrate using the 35ppt solution.

    Oh one last thing, when you wipe the preaim do not use force. Refractometer prism can shift a bit and mess the calibration again.

    You see how something as simple as salinity can have so much debate and informations...fundamentals are known to all but definition of these fundamentals are the diffrence between thriving and struggling system.

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    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  2. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Couple of things today.
    1- I am attempting to help my clam heal. Wrapped the shel half together but not too tight. Hoping this will allow the clam to heal the ligament that holds the not sure if what am doing will help or not, just experimenting.
    2- re arranged the plumbing on my zeo reactor and its flow meter to make some space for the red dragon return pump as its bit tight now. The RD3 is bigger than the vectra, I been working slowly on the transition without disturbing the setup
    3- got my new toy. Bubble king double cone 200+rds 3. I currently have the bubble king 200 mini extra slim. I was too scared of the space in my sump that's why I got the mini which have internal pump. Later I realized I actually can fit the BK DC200. Today i will tinker with it and update the performance diffrence...

    You gotta appreciate these German machine builds...royal execlusive stuff is amazing..[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  3. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Supporting Member

    It is a debatable topic. Personally, I don’t think salinity is as important as you make it out to be. Sure, if you’re way off it can have a drastic impact on the health of the tank but I think most people are going to be less than 10% off from what it actually is (and I think that is even generous). If the target is 35 ppt then 10% is a range of 31.5-38.5. With proper acclimation that range will not harm livestock.

    I think your strongest argument is how it throws off the other elements of the tank (to be technical that is not salinity though). Whatever the percentage deviation from the target will have the same deviation in all the other elements that your salt mix has. So alk may be 7.2-8.8 instead of the targeted 8.0. Again, not critical. This effect is even further mitigated depending on how much you do for your water changes. Let’s say on the high side you do a 50% water change, that 7.2-8.8 mixes with the rest of the water and that’s still only a 7.6-8.4 variation. I rarely did water changes (about 1 per year) so this whole part of your argument was not really applicable to me but I understand that I’m in the minority when it comes to water changes.
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  4. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Ha ha, yeh maybe am too picky.
    Btw not to confuse people, I am not advocating certain salinity value rather consistancy..

    The issue I am scared of when it come to salt is dosing decisions that are a result of salinity swing. The situation where you have a doser, you adjust it and forget about it only to discover later you been overdosing.
    It happened to me years ago.

    At the end of the day, as long as you are consistent coral adapt.
    For me it's all about maintaining solid stable parameters.

    2ppt off with 20% weekly water change addes up.

    But yeh, if swings are not much it's not a big deal, it's an issue when and if its causing swing beyond coral tolerance. coral tolerance vary though. there are hard corals and sensitive corals.

    I have lost millies when my kh swing from 7 to 8.5...

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    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  5. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Put together the BK DC200. Super pleased with the performance. This thing is a best. Foaming withen 1 minute.
    The pic is withen 3 min of the operation. Solid foam and highly controllable.
    Added couple of coral will upload some pics tomorrow.[​IMG]

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    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  6. NanoCrazed

    NanoCrazed Supporting Member

    I'm equally jealous
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  7. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    I Added
    A Green Nepthea
    Japanese Leather
    Aussie Cynarina.
    And an aussie SPS.
    Love the green nepthea credits to Neptune aquatics they have some awesome frags of this nice coral
    Also sent Triton test last week should have 5he results soon. Will publish it once I have it.
    Parameters still stable
    No3: 0.5 increased a bit but not concerning cause zeolite is due for change this week
    Po4: 0.08
    Kh 7.5
    Ca: 500 still high but should come down eventuall
    K+ 380

    Did not start the CArx yet as I do not have consumption yet...

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  8. ashburn2k

    ashburn2k Webmaster Staff Member

    what does your japanese leather looks like?
  9. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    The Japanese leather coral did not open up yet. it look like a toadstool Leather but with super long extentions.l and neon green color that pops up once its extended..
    Very cool actually. Am not in to lps as much but every now and then I like something and this was one case...

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  10. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Also added couple of chalices.
    Mummy eyes and space invaders.
    And a nice acantho.

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  11. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    I have done a post on R2R in the past about kh and my experience kh with stability. I think its useful so am reposting it here. I will try to talk about some topics in this thread so I can share what I have learned and learn from people comments.

    Kh stability and its importance:

    I have always heard in the past how important it is to have a stable KH, especially in zeovit system given the system is run on a tight and UNLS parameters.

    I used to measure alk once a week, and adjust my dosing accordingly. but every now and then I would have SPS stressed out for no reason especially during water change day.

    then I started measuring alk daily, and what I noticed is that there are days KH consumption is low and days high. so what I concluded is that some days when the KH consumption is low (coral is not going through calcification), though my tank need less KH dosing, my doser will dose the fixed amount which bring the KH value to above 8, then on days when my KH consumption is high, my fixed dosing is not enough and my KH drop to 6.3.

    such fluctuation stressed my coral and caused a lot of the issues. usually the WC days are the worst cause when I do 20% WC my KH actually spike, then my doer add more KH which bring the KH value to high values.(also embedded problem jere was my salinity measurment ws not accurate so kh of the slat mix will be bit higher than expected. Remember high salinity mean high kh and CA)

    Enter KH guardian. I got myself a KH guardian 2 years ago and had it set to measure my KH 8 times a day.
    what was revealed during my usage is amazing. during the day my coral KH consumption actually vary quite a lot, and if I have fixed dosing quantity, my LKH value in the tank can vary from 8.3 to 7. and after WC my KH would spike up to 8.3.
    further more, it was amazing seeing the KH consumption trend where i have more consumption during peak photo period (coral growing) and low KH consumption during night.

    using KHG I regulated my Alk value (KHG measure and control the doser to add KH as needed only).
    this made my tank KH super stable with range of 7~7.3. over 9 months, my growth improved significantly, I never lost a coral or got RTN/STN and coral coloration improved.

    all data indicate that this improvement was mainly from the stable KH i was able to maintain thanks to KHG.
    that's why now i am a big supporter of at least daily KH measurements, regardless of how stable your system is, it is hard to predict the calcification process trend over couple of days.

    before i got KHG i did a lot of research on the market to invest in the right equipment, and KHG was a clear winner.
    other kits (released and yet to be released) missing features KHG offer for free
    1- KHG do not need extra dosers or updated controllers to control ALK. most of what was in the market at the time, do measurement only, to control you need extra doser. which if you aggregate total cost it comes way higher than the KHG. if we look at some of whats coming soon, we see measurement only devices, then marketing campaign asking us to buy expensive dosers (the claim usually is, if you want reliability buy our doser), some even ask for full controller update.

    2- KHG was small footprint which was very important. such equipment need to be inside the cabinet, for reef systems real-estate is important. i did not have enough space under my tank.

    3- KH offered control and monitor only solution, i ended up going with the control, but i know couple of reefers who have monitor only KHG and all what they do is control a cheap doser based on the KH values by the KHG using any controller (GHL, Apex..etc)

    4- KHG was compatible with all common controller. i hooked it up to my old Apex and its working like a charm
    5- customer support by KHG team was world class

    6- reagent is cheap, one reagent packet last 2 to 4 months (depend on how often you test) this was important, as you do not want to change reagent often

    7- KHG use a reagent that can be dumped back in the tank, i was very sceptic of this at first, but i sent a test water sample to ICP test and all parameters came back within the recommended values, i did not see harmful sustains. that being said i am not doing that and instead dumping my KHG test water in my skimmer waste container
    8- finally, KHG performance was very stable. for 6 months, i cross correlated KH measurement values to common kits like salifert, and every single time the values are matched. some times when values do not match, i use brand new salifert kit, and realize that KH is giving the correct value while the older kit values where shifted which BTW is common complaint from reefers where they see the accuracy of the kit shift by time.

    i will conclude by saying: test your ALK daily if you can at least for couple of months to understand your system trend, get yourself a KHG if possible and enjoy your reefing:)

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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  12. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Correlation between KH and PH in my tank
    With KH monitoring I was able to see how with higher PH, more Alk/CA is being consumed which showd me the correlation between PH and calcification process. this is a picture of a typical day reading of the PH and ALK.
    you can see alk value increase during night when PH is low, then start decreasing (more consumption) during high PH values. which to me make sense. during day, high PH, coral growing more ALK/CA consumed.

    furthermore, once I stabilized my ALk I noticed another phenomena, in the past my CA and ALK used to not match in term of amount I need to dose (percentage wise). once I stabilized alk, my CA/ALK consumption became the same. meaning, when I needed to reduce ALK, I needed to reduce CA with the same percentage. this was great because, I realized in reality if we can control ALK I did not need to measure CA as much to control it, I just follow the same percentage reduction of increase in the CA as to the ALK.

    SO: I realized that if I use the KHG to measure ALK, all what I need to do is to turn off my 4 channel doser when I want to suspend ALK which will suspend CA dosing as well, and turn it on when I want more dosing of ALK which will dose CA with the same percentage. so at least for my system, all I needed is KHG and I can control both CA and ALK with high accuracy. this kind of match what other systems I was on, like redsea, where they clearly correlate ALK/CA consumption by measuring one of them only and dose the rest of the elements based on this one element. I think this is important, the less we burden reefing community with costs and measurements the better, so I liked that with KHG alone I did what was needed for my system instead of spending so much money on upgrading controllers, adding extra dosers and add expensive measurement devices.
    the best 2 investments I have done to my system over the last 2 years where the KHG and the PRS auto zeo reactor.[​IMG]

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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  13. Julius Chen

    Julius Chen Supporting Member

    Isn’t KH at 7 too low?

    [QUOTE="This salt one of the few ones that have low alk without having low K which is critical parameters when you run natural sea level.
    Kh: 6.8~7
  14. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    [/QUOTE]7 is actually mid range for zeovit.
    I run natural sea water parameters level.
    Kh is 6.5 to 7.5 in the sea. So I run 7.
    With high kh coral color is more brown. Higher kh speed up growth a bit with the right condition (many growth program calls for elevated levels which I have tried them all) but with accelerated growth coral brown.

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  15. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

    I would add test at the same time every day if you are gonna test daily.
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  16. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member


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  17. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer Past President

    I sure would like it ignore I could easily program my bubble magus to dose certain amounts at certain times. Peak amounts during peak lighting/photosynthesis makes mucho sense.
    ofzakaria likes this.
  18. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Supporting Member

    So the tested water sample can go right back into the tank water? That’s amazing. People have made comments about the trident using too much water to test with and possibly throwing off the salinity because it would cause the ato to come on. You’re doing water changes so it probably wouldn’t effect you much but at the time I wasn’t doing any so this made me think twice about it.
    ofzakaria likes this.
  19. ofzakaria

    ofzakaria Supporting Member

    Yup, I once sent a sample for a Triton test and it was simply salt water.
    Reason it's safe is because khg use randy holms kh measurment method which is: the water sample go in to a chamber and the reagent (titration) is nothing but rodi water that have known acidity. Then ph prob inside the test chamber is used to measure the ph as reagent titration drops are counted through a drop counting sensor.
    The water sample can be dumped back to the tank because it's nothing other than couple of ml tank water with low ph.
    Kh guardian is one hell of a machine. Simple, reliable and now is the chepest option by far.

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  20. grizfyrfyter

    grizfyrfyter Guest

    Added to my list of shit I wish I could afford lol.
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