Tslot stand

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Vhuang168, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    I'm researching the materials needed to use Tslot extrusions for a stand.

    Tank is 48/30/20 and I'm using a 2000 lb load in the 80/20 deflection program.

    Anyone know what is the max deflection I should aim for?

    Want to span the whole 48" in the front but I need to know how big I need to go to achieve that safely.

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  2. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Is the tank acrylic or glass?
    I designed my 8 foot acrylic for 1/8 long term.
    Glass should be less, probably by a lot. I don't really know.

    You may want several horizontal beams, not just front and back.
    Each one sharing the load.

    I am curious about that Tslot choice though.
    Issues with the joints in sheer plus racking concerns.
    Basically: The bolts in the slots can slide fairly easily, and
    a lot of the angled supports and such will rely on those not moving.
  3. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    Tank is glass.

    Plan is to miter the ends and have the vertical legs sit under the joints at the corners.

    Using 1000lb and a 48" span. 1515 gets me 0.54" if it is supported at both ends. Funny thing is they list deflection at 0.107" if fixed at both ends which is how they usually mount (butt mounted using anchors).

    According to their chart, if I butt mount using 2 anchors, the anchors will hold 1200lbs cantilevered.

    So looks like I need to go 1530 which gets me 0.016" fixed and 0.079" supported.

    However, I think the 1000lb load is way over kill but better safe than sorry right!?!

    I will be using cross members that span 2 perpendicular pieces at certain junctions to prevent any racking or twisting.

    I'm going to give them a call tomorrow and hopefully get to talk to someone.
  4. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    I'm doing aluminum extrusion on my new tank, it's only 57G though so no where nearly in the same weight class.
  5. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    Do you want to use aluminum simply because it's workability? Why not use like stainless steel? Wood is always a viable option too. I'm just curious what your reasoning is for the tslot choice.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  6. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    I believe aluminum extrusion is in fact stronger than square steel, I like it because it's slotted and ready to be put together like legos, they have 90 degree brackets, 45, whatever you want really so it makes it super versatile when installing. The other main reason why I'm using it is because I'm doing an in-wall tank so there really is no stand to speak of and the thin square extrusions will make for a very clean skeleton that will sit behind a wooden skin appearing to look like a cabinet :)


    You can literally build any shape framing you wish for:

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  7. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    I too like it for it modularity. Plus I can put it together myself rather than paying someone to weld together a steel stand or making a wood stand. I have more confidence in my mechanical skills than wood working skills.

    Tank will be in my garage so doesn't need to be furniture quality though you can skin them very nicely too.

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    HiFidelity likes this.
  8. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Have you seen this site?
    It explains the loads and deflection calculations.
    Yours should be the top-right under "supported loads"

    Aluminum versus steel:
    The normal differences don't really matter (density / fatigue)
    Cost can vary. Plain steel is cheap, but then you need all the work to protect it from rust.
    Stainless is expensive, both for metal and shipping.
    Aluminum done right seems fine to me.

    Think about what happens during and earthquake though.
    Shear forces are high, and bolts in slots can move.
    I am sure it can be handled, but just think about it.
  9. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    Which is why I'll be adding corner brackets or 45deg supports to counter any twisting or racking.

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    HiFidelity likes this.
  10. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    I build staircases so I'm used to working with wood, steel, stainless steel, and glass, but the only aluminum I've used has been trim pieces. Plans never call for aluminum for structural support in homes and buildings.

    I'm trying to find support for your claim that it is stronger than steel but am coming up short. I'm sure there are extrusions that given their shape and thickness may be stronger than a particular piece of square steel but ultimately aluminum's strength is not its strong point when compared with steel. It's strength to weight ratio is great but in this application you aren't really that conserned with how much the frame weighs. It is also quite corrosive resistance is great to but again if you were to use 316 stainless it's resistance is right up there too. The cost of the materials is by far more expensive than steel.

    In my opinion the greatest advantage is in its workability. It cuts and drills much easier than steel and doesn't need to be welded, so if you don't have the tools then this can be a deal breaker if you want to do it yourself.

    If you want I could cut and weld it for you in trade for something reef related. Then you're just paying for the stainless material.
    Enderturtle likes this.
  11. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    ^ you hit the nail right on the head, aluminum's strength to weight ratio is really high but comparing pound per pound steel is certainly stronger. To me if extrusion's stronger than a 2x4 then my concerns for strength in relation to our applications end there since 2x4 are known to be a reliable building material for stands.

    I did some googling and depending on the alloy used tensile strength can vary but it's somewhere north of 30,000 PSI.
  12. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    I am not sure why the strength versus steel comes up as an issue.
    You design the amount of aluminum needed to the load.
    IE: Calculate it - If not strong enough - make it bigger.

    If it were hard to calculate, then yes, sticking with something "proven" would be best.
    HiFidelity likes this.
  13. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    @HiFidelity where are you getting the Tslot? I've been trying to get a hold of GA Wirth who is the closest 80/20 dealer to me but it's almost a week since I sent them an email and still no reply. And no one picks up the phone either.

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  14. HiFidelity

    HiFidelity Guest

    I got some of it a while back second hand from someone, this is bad news to me because I'm sure I'll need more pieces and was hoping I could get it locally.

    I know from googling that there are plenty of suppliers that'll ship it to you

    I would say give these guys a call;
  15. Prisonfood53

    Prisonfood53 Guest

    Vhang168 try Teco Pneumatic they are located in Pleasanton. Here is a phone #925-426-8500 it's been a while since I called them but it should be a good number. You can email John Bondoc, john_bondoc@tecopneumatic.com. We purchase 80/20 on occasion to build carts for customers it takes some time to put together but it is pretty strong. You would probably want the profiles that are doubled up, basically 1x2 profiles to minimize the deflection. When you are doing the deflection calcs with their software general rule is 150% of the total weight for safety. I would probably not miter the extrusion cuz It would be stronger if the horizontal lengths were resting directly on the vertical supports.

  16. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    Thanks Ryan.

    If I miter the joints, I can have all 4 horizontals resting on the verticals. If not, l would probably put the longer front and rear lengths on the verticals and attach the side pieces to the front and rear lengths.

    It's also strange that I get lower deflection numbers if the length is attached (with an anchor from the side of the vertical) vs supported (resting on a vertical) using their software.

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  17. Prisonfood53

    Prisonfood53 Guest

    Ok V I misunderstood which ones you were mitering.

    When you say the length is attached with anchor from the side I assume the vertical supports will be all the way to the top? Maybe the load doesn't transfer directly to the verticals with the horizontal support on top of it.
  18. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    That's correct, vertical goes all the way to the top. This is why I want to talk to someone selling it rather than just ordering it blind which I can do since most have online storefronts.

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  19. Prisonfood53

    Prisonfood53 Guest

    This is a Primo Reef stand and it has the vertical supports all the way to the top. Maybe it is stronger?
  20. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Officer at large

    Coming from a construction background, you just never see it done that way. It's surprising to see their calculations show that that is the stronger method.

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