your right CitS, very fast grower, easily doubled scince i got them from you. So ive got a 3'rd generation frag to be added back into the DBTC program. Only hitch is, you have to pick up at the next BAR meeting. I have these down low under 250 watt 20K Reefoptics and med flow. Ian's orriginal rules apply. BTW Ian, that agent orange acan also has doubled in size, and LOVES to eat in the morning!!!