Zoa Hybridization Experiment - Will it Work?

Discussion in 'Propagation' started by Euphyllia, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Euphyllia

    Euphyllia Guest

    I've been reading a few different threads on Nano Reef and Reef Central about hybridizing palys. In these threads, hobbyist have successfully hybridized Purple Deaths with Nuclear Greens, however the OP disappeared before they shared the final outcome. The farthest one of the threads I read went was two months after the grafting/splicing of the palys, at which point they had retained color from both Purple Deaths and Nuclear Greens and had created one or two offspring which also retained color from Nuclear Greens and Purple Deaths.

    These threads have interested me into thinking about hybridizing zoas. I have a few large colonies that I would be willing to risk a polyp from, but before I start I want your thoughts. BAR has a large panel of people who have loads of experience and knowledge, so my question is: is there something different between zoas and palys which would allow the success of hybridizing palys and the failure of hybridizing zoas?

    I've noticed just by looking at all of the different zoas in my tanks that they all have different polyp structures, but there are some (like Radioactive Dragon Eyes and Eagle Eyes) that have the same polyp structure. My thinking is that the zoas/palys being hybridized have to have the same structure (like PD and NG, or Eagle Eyes and Radioactive Dragon Eyes) for the hybridization to work.

    What are your thoughts? If I decide to go through with the experiment I will be cutting the zoas with a scalpel (while wearing glasses and gloves) outside the tank so no toxins can be released.
     
  2. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    There was an article in the Reef magazine I picked up at the swap about trying to mix purple deaths and nuclear greens, however he found any color shifting was temporary, maybe its an older article than the threads you read though.
     
  3. Euphyllia

    Euphyllia Guest

    Now that I think of it, my Eagle Eyes somehow developed green streaks in their red oral disc, which disappeared after 6-10 months. Maybe to get a true morph you would need to have the two specimens spawn, however that wouldn't explain this.

    Someone in the thread on RC said that the morph would revert back to PD or NG, but the question is what would happen to the babies that retained the color?
     
  4. JAR

    JAR Supporting Member

    With the right software it could also have pink polka dots :D
     
  5. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest


    Do you realize you just debated yourself and proved yourself wrong? FWIW there has to be TWO different things in order for them to hybridize ;) It's not uncommon for either paly's or zoa's to develop other colors.

    The cases of actual zoa and paly spawning in aquaria is next to nill. The have a much more simple way of propagating in the aquaria.
     
  6. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

    We had a speaker last year who spoke of something similar to what Matthew posted, my brain is not helping...
    Was something about, similar (or I'm completely going nuts) to coral fusing?
    I'll look for the thread....
     
  7. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

    Coral Fusion

    http://www.bareefers.org/home/node/10617
     
  8. Euphyllia

    Euphyllia Guest

    When I brought up the subject of my Eagle Eyes I was talking about the loss of morphed coloration over a matter of months. This is the part of sfsuphysics' reply I was referring to...
     
  9. Euphyllia

    Euphyllia Guest

    I think I faintly remember a speaker showing a picture of two corals fusing into each other. I want to say it was some kind of LPS or encrusting SPS, though I can't recall the image very well.
     
  10. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    But what does fusion have to do with hybridization? Totally different things ;)

    The only way to get that is through sexual reproduction. Asexual reproduction does not allow hybridization.

    Putting two corals next to each other and them combining is not hybridization.

    Zoa's and Paly's to date have no reported spawnings in aquaria that have resulted in successful settlement.
     
  11. GreshamH

    GreshamH Guest

    Justin Credible (also a speaker at BAYMAC this year)

    It was Goni's he was doing it with (amongst other things like acans and such )and that is not a hybrid.
     
  12. xcaret

    xcaret Supporting Member

    Yeah, that's him, I just could not remember exactly what the speech was about, Matthew's post made me remember something about corals close to each other then I pulled the link before leaving.
     
  13. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    Green Fluorescent Protein, google it :)
     
  14. Patsquatch

    Patsquatch Guest

    many corals are able to "fuse" together. there are many situations where sps have been grafted onto host colonies in order to create a mutant...

    I have personal experience with creating a "nuclear green death" paly. I would cut a zoa from each down the middle creating two "half" heads where i continued to glue the base together (having left rubble the zoa's were originally attached to). Once the base was glued, it created a platform the zoa halves could share and be stable. Moderate flow, moderate light and routine inspection to prevent "curling". Curling is a term i use to describe when a zoa half, whether have been ripped or sliced, would try to curl around to complete the zoa head prematurely. keeping them uncurled promoted the two zoa halves to heal together. Once i could tell the heads were fusing, i gradually increased the light/flow until they were located in a similar area in the tank the original colony. unfortunatly the morph never produced other morphs. Only other indevidual purple deaths and nuc greens.. just fun to do... and as long as the taxonomy is the same between the zoas, this is possible to do with other typs... I know the Protopaly type are extremely hardy and can take abuse such as splicing and manipulation.
     
  15. muhli

    muhli Guest

    Some people already do it with monti caps
     

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