zomg, fish are dying

Discussion in 'Other Reef Talk' started by kinetic, Oct 24, 2008.

  1. pixelpixi

    pixelpixi Guest

    good luck!
     
  2. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    thank you!

    So I put some water in a clear jar (big one, the kind you get dried shredded pork in) and started airating it with some crazy air pumps, heated the water to 78 degrees, and put a little baking soda in. The pH was pretty close to the display tank's pH. My pH kit sucks, but it definitely was close.

    After I setup a 8 gallon tank, heated brand new mixed reef crystals / instant ocean (ran out of rc, had to get io from petco) to 78 degrees, salinity at 1.026 (per refractometer).

    Maxijet 900 in there, kind of rough though. I was going to use a small little 100gph pump but it won't turn, (damn quiet one). Anyway, the water is about 6.7 gallons in there now, so the directions on the copper said 1 teaspoon per 4 gallons, so I added 1 tsp plus a tiny bit. I don't want to overdose.

    So this is how it went:

    Netted her (not too hard) while she was eating. It's a good sign that she was still able to eat! Then I plopped her into the jar. She immediately locked up, fully bent and fins as far forward as possible, breathing REALLY hard. I was freaked out! I was going to take her out and put her back into the display, I thought she was dying. But right when I was about to dump her back out into the net, she moved and started swimming a bit. Then she freaked out and swam in circles, tried to jump out (good thing I left the net on top)... then calmed down some more. I saw a lot of white stuff floating around the water, and it definitely couldn't have been the baking soda. It looked like white dust, some bigger than others. I think that it means it's definitely marine velvet.

    The biggest one I could see might have had little frills, but that might just be me freaking out adn thinking it has tiny feet. So after 4.5 minutes I got her out of the jar and into the freshly mixed water laced with 1.15 teaspoons of the copper I bought from Petco called CopperSafe. I hope that's a good brand, it was the only copper Petco carries.

    I put a light on top of the tank, not sure if I should keep it on. If it's dark she might be more freaked out, I dunno. I'm going to go out and get some food now and I'll try to feed her tonight if she's not totally weirded out.

    I didn't put any filtration in the tank at all. I heard floss / live rock will absorb the copper and render it useless. The copper says it can treat the tank for 4 days, and no water changes necessary given all parameters are good.

    Should I change the water? Should I redose the tank with the amount of new water I put in when I do change it?

    I'll probably check water params twice a day, and do a water change if necessary if you guys think it's a good idea.
     
  3. pixelpixi

    pixelpixi Guest

    Whew. Glad to hear that she's still hanging on.

    Did you find anything out about clownfish sensitivity to copper? If the FW dip knocked a lot of it off, it seems like the most immediate concern is to make sure that further treatment doesn't kill her.

    As far as water changes, in an 8 gallon tank with 1 clownfish, it'll take a few days for ammonia to reach a dangerous level. So with no filtration something like a 25% daily water change seems reasonable.
     
  4. fishnfst

    fishnfst Guest

    IF it is indeed marine velvet is that the same as fw velvet? IF it is leave the tank lights off.. It is a parasitic algae right? You should premix your waterchange water in a container you will never use for your reef.. Pre Mix 4 gallons of water then dose the 5ml of coppersafe into it. THen use that water for water changes.. Mardel's coppersafe has always been a good stand by for me..

    I get most of my meds from fishyfarmacy.com
     
  5. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    I don't think Marine Velvet is the same as FW velvet, and as far as I've read, it's not algae, it's a dinoflaggelate which is somewhere between a plant and an animal or something like that... so I guess it could photosynthesis, I'll keep the lights off, probably cover the tank as much as I can.
     
  6. phc567

    phc567 Guest

    you need a air stone in that 8 gallon tank. anytime you add copper it will pull the oxygen out of the water.
     
  7. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    [quote author=phc567 link=topic=4957.msg60850#msg60850 date=1224973681]
    you need a air stone in that 8 gallon tank. anytime you add copper it will pull the oxygen out of the water.
    [/quote]

    oh dang, ok I'll go get one. I'll leave my airpump in there for now. thanks for the suggestion.
     
  8. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    she's gone =(

    she got a lot better within two days, but then she decided to jump out! got past the eggcrate that I lay on top. she must have really been hurtin and wanting to get out...

    I found her still alive on the floor (thank goodness I checked so many times) but I don't think I got her back in the water in time.

    this really sucks. I think I may take a break from the hobby.
     
  9. Elite

    Elite Guest

    That's suck Art :( .. Just go fishless for a while man.. That will give you some break. How about buying a bunch of cleaner shrimps?? That looks cool :) ..
     
  10. Lyn

    Lyn Guest

    I'm really sorry about your fish. I wish I had seen this earlier. I had Marine velvet about a year ago and lost two fish. It killed a clown and damsel really fast. The only fish that surived was an Indo Pacific damsel which is practically indestructible. It looks like you did your FW dip correctly, but clowns are suseptible to copper due to their lack of scales (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


    For future reference, as Fshnfst said, this site has the medication you were looking for. They sell it as Quinine Sulfate. I have ordered from this site in the past, and I got my order in two days.

    http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products4.html

    After the velvet outbreak, I left the tank fishless for 2 + months, just to be on the safe side. And as Phong stated above, I did get some cleaner shrimp for the tank. There are some really neat shrimp out there you might want to look into.
     
  11. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    [quote author=Lyn link=topic=4957.msg61265#msg61265 date=1225243692]
    I'm really sorry about your fish. I wish I had seen this earlier. I had Marine velvet about a year ago and lost two fish. It killed a clown and damsel really fast. The only fish that surived was an Indo Pacific damsel which is practically indestructible. It looks like you did your FW dip correctly, but clowns are suseptible to copper due to their lack of scales (someone correct me if I'm wrong).


    For future reference, as Fshnfst said, this site has the medication you were looking for. They sell it as Quinine Sulfate. I have ordered from this site in the past, and I got my order in two days.

    http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products4.html

    After the velvet outbreak, I left the tank fishless for 2 + months, just to be on the safe side. And as Phong stated above, I did get some cleaner shrimp for the tank. There are some really neat shrimp out there you might want to look into.


    [/quote]

    I've asked around about clownfish and the copper sensitivity, but I didn't find any hard evidence other than speculation. Also, fingerwrinkles (robin) didn't mention it being a bad treatment and he's like the clownfish guru... so I thought it would be good. Bob Fenerer though said that Quinine Sulfate would be better... I'll keep that in mind next time.

    I've had a lot of different shrimp, in fact had a small tank once dedicated to those tiny anemone shrimp, those were cool. But I'm going to try to keep my tank without any shrimp, just in case in the future I need to lace the tank with interceptor if I ever get those damn red bugs =) I'm moving soon once my new house gets remodeled, so I'll probably wait until march to stock my tank =) Patience! One day it'll be beautiful.

    Thanks for everyone's support.
     
  12. pixelpixi

    pixelpixi Guest

    My condolences, Art.

    By the way, my department is moving to a building even closer to where you work. I'll be in the building between 53rd and 55th at Doyle St. Maybe we'll run into each other some time. I'll be the tall chick eating lunch with the other nerds at Doyle St Cafe.
     
  13. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Guest

    Glad to hear your not giving up Art.
     
  14. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    [quote author=pixelpixi link=topic=4957.msg61299#msg61299 date=1225263256]
    My condolences, Art.

    By the way, my department is moving to a building even closer to where you work. I'll be in the building between 53rd and 55th at Doyle St. Maybe we'll run into each other some time. I'll be the tall chick eating lunch with the other nerds at Doyle St Cafe.


    [/quote]

    Unfortunately we just moved to San Francisco =( DOH!
     
  15. pixelpixi

    pixelpixi Guest

    haha. Oh well!
     
  16. skorpinok

    skorpinok Guest

    Hey Art, sorry to have read what happend... It always suck to hear this type of news.

    Where is SF did you guys move to?
     
  17. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    [quote author=Skorpinok link=topic=4957.msg61343#msg61343 date=1225303096]
    Hey Art, sorry to have read what happend... It always suck to hear this type of news.

    Where is SF did you guys move to?
    [/quote]
    611 Mission St.

    Like two blocks from the Montgomery BART station.
     
  18. seminolecpa

    seminolecpa Past President

    Nice. A few of us downtown meet for lunch every now and then. Will keep you in mind the next time we get something together.
     
  19. iani

    iani Guest

    You guys can come my way and take a lunch trip to ocean treasures. I work about 3 blocks away.
     
  20. kinetic

    kinetic Webmaster

    [quote author=seminolecpa link=topic=4957.msg61348#msg61348 date=1225304742]
    Nice. A few of us downtown meet for lunch every now and then. Will keep you in mind the next time we get something together.
    [/quote]

    Heck yeah! Let me know =)
     

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