Cali Kid Corals

Algae ID: cyano, dinos, diatoms, other?

richiev

Supporting Member
I've been fighting an algae problem in my Reefer 170. I can't kick it, and could use some ID help.

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Brown. Produces strings. Here you can see it mocking me by growing on a UV sterilizer I put in the tank.


I assume the answer is I need to get a microscope out. If so, does anyone have a pointer to a guide that shows what the various bacterias/algaes look like? I have a couple phone camera microscopes my kids got, and I'm hoping one of those would work.
 
Is it there in the morning before the lights come on? Best guess would be Dino’s
It definitely grows in the light versus in the dark. I've not really understood this question when asked elsewhere in identification threads. Meaning, is the question "does it disappear overnight and reappear when the lights come on" or "does it only grow during the day" or other?

I don't know the answer to any of those honestly, but looking to understand the question.

Post what you see on the microscope. Looks like dinos, but could be diatoms. Microscope should tell.
I'll try to get those pics tonight. Any chance you have a good reference to id pics?
 
Is it there in the morning before the lights come on? Best guess would be Dino’s
I have never been one to use UV, but have used water polishers for bacteria issues. I have a marine land water polisher that has kept cyano and Dino’s at bay so they don’t get to terrible while I just wait for them to di their thing. Also useful in the QT tank for bacteria blooms there.
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...jz8yntqcpkO14NGk0iRoCkPgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

you can always borrow it
 
It definitely grows in the light versus in the dark. I've not really understood this question when asked elsewhere in identification threads. Meaning, is the question "does it disappear overnight and reappear when the lights come on" or "does it only grow during the day" or other?

I don't know the answer to any of those honestly, but looking to understand the question.


I'll try to get those pics tonight. Any chance you have a good reference to id pics?

When the lights go out, some Dinos will leave the substrate in search of light and seemingly disappear only to reappear on the substrate after the lights go on. You can actually stir them up when lights go out to make them “go away.”

What you have looks brown and snotty, much like ostreopsis. I had an outbreak of those dinos in the past. You can see samples of what mine looked like at the link below. I’d definitely try to confirm what you have before you do treatment.

 
It definitely grows in the light versus in the dark. I've not really understood this question when asked elsewhere in identification threads. Meaning, is the question "does it disappear overnight and reappear when the lights come on" or "does it only grow during the day" or other?

I don't know the answer to any of those honestly, but looking to understand the question.


I'll try to get those pics tonight. Any chance you have a good reference to id pics?
Dinos often look like they went away in the morning and then get worse as they settle and darken up during the day, so you think your tank got better in the morning only to come home from work and it looks like they all came back. Cyano kinda does that too, but it’s not as drastic, they are there in the morning, but maybe a lighter color.

few days of lights off is also handy. The corals will be fine for a few day.
 
Best pics I could grab holding my phone over my kids level of microscope.

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Looks like ostreposis. Do they look like they’re spinning on an imaginary axis? That’s a tell tale sign of otreposis.
I didn't see them move at all. I can try another round, but my microscope situation is pretty weak.

Anyone have a good justification for me to buy a different microscope (something I can use to make the case to my bank account) and a link to a cheap but good enough one?
 
I didn't see them move at all. I can try another round, but my microscope situation is pretty weak.

Anyone have a good justification for me to buy a different microscope (something I can use to make the case to my bank account) and a link to a cheap but good enough one?
Link: AmScope M150C-I 40X-1000X All-Metal Optical Glass Lenses Cordless LED Student Biological Compound Microscope https://a.co/d/0EeCTWG

Justification:
Screenshot_20220612-191955_Chrome.jpg
 
I didn't see them move at all. I can try another round, but my microscope situation is pretty weak.

Anyone have a good justification for me to buy a different microscope (something I can use to make the case to my bank account) and a link to a cheap but good enough one?


 
Link: AmScope M150C-I 40X-1000X All-Metal Optical Glass Lenses Cordless LED Student Biological Compound Microscope https://a.co/d/0EeCTWG

Justification:
View attachment 39316
From the doc you sent, and quick reading, it looks like it's osteoporosis, which the UV should be helping with. I probably screwed myself there by getting an underpowered one and also I stupidly flipped the pump on it to high.

I'm switching it back to low and will see what happens. I should in theory be able to return this to Amazon, so maybe I'll buy a new one and return. Oye.
 
Seconding the diagnosis of ostreopsis based on your pictures. I won't stop you from having an excuse to get a better microscope, but I'd say those are good enough for a diagnosis.

Are your nitrate and phosphate detectable? If so, I'd feed heavier to raise them, plumb in a UV, and dose bacteria (microbacter 7 or similar) directly in the sand to compete, with a 3 or 4 day blackout for good measure.
 
From the doc you sent, and quick reading, it looks like it's osteoporosis, which the UV should be helping with. I probably screwed myself there by getting an underpowered one and also I stupidly flipped the pump on it to high.

I'm switching it back to low and will see what happens. I should in theory be able to return this to Amazon, so maybe I'll buy a new one and return. Oye.

What size did you get? You should just be able to slow down flow to help you with your problem (as long as you’ll get at least ~1.5x tank turnover through the UV every hour).
 
Looks like ostreposis. Do they look like they’re spinning on an imaginary axis? That’s a tell tale sign of otreposis.
I did another round and I saw them moving this time. They definitely were spinning at times during movement.
What size did you get? You should just be able to slow down flow to help you with your problem (as long as you’ll get at least ~1.5x tank turnover through the UV every hour).
Reefer 170 which in theory is up to 43gallons, but I have no idea if they calculate that based on actual water levels of the sump and tank or by doing it based on theoretical max volume. Let's just say 40gal erring on the high side.

The UV I got is an in tank, with filter, unit. An aqua top, rated at 7w. I'm currently running it at it's lowest flow to maximize time under light, and it's in my display looking ugly AF. My intention was to run it until things stabilized, then move it into the sump, then eventually turn it off.


Seconding the diagnosis of ostreopsis based on your pictures. I won't stop you from having an excuse to get a better microscope, but I'd say those are good enough for a diagnosis.

Are your nitrate and phosphate detectable? If so, I'd feed heavier to raise them, plumb in a UV, and dose bacteria (microbacter 7 or similar) directly in the sand to compete, with a 3 or 4 day blackout for good measure.
Nitrates and phosphates are quite low. I've killed my fuge and have phosphate and nitrates being dosed through my ATO water to try and slowly raise things up.

I'll be honest though, as much as I have myself trumpeted the "feed more", "raise numbers" mantra, I've been starting to really have trouble buying it. The logic doesn't make sense to me when I try and really think it through.

In my head I'm thinking of that rabbits and foxes differential equations problem. More rabbits lead to more foxes because they get eaten, more foxes lead to less rabbits because they eat more. Eventually the system stabilizes. That seems like the theory behind feed more.

However, that doesn't make sense to me here, because that theoretical balance point would seemingly be at nutrient levels going to 0. If the nutrient levels are non zero, or increasing because you're feeding more, you're feeding all those things including the dinos, so it should make dinos worse. It's not a zero sum situation, it's one where everything should be getting worse.

More simply, if algae and dinos both consume the same things, and those things aren't 0, why wouldn't both continue multiplying? Is there a theory that algae are eating the dinos, or something else is? Thoughts?

However along these lines I am trying to reduce my carbon additions to my tank, under the assumption dinos consume carbon but algae don't (I read that somewhere). Because of that I'm currently switching off All For Reef over to 2-part, and that's why I'm dosing nitrates and phosphates versus overfeeding.
 
Part of the equation is coral. My understanding is coral will uptake some of those nutrients. The issue is, as nutrients go to zero, dinos are more capable of thriving than the starving corals are. Dinos multiply, corals wither.

One of the thought processes for fighting dinos is to build up everything else (bacteria, microfauna, algae, corals) so they outcompete dinos.
 
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