Home prep for tank. Need sanity checks and advice.

[kinetic]

I'm doing a remodel of the house in the next 4 - 6 months (depending on when permits get done). I'm planning on a tank, but since a lot of the house is getting ripped up and rebuilt, I'd like to get it ready for a new tank the right way. I'm not made of money, but I will spend where I can.

Tank: 48" x 30" x 22" peninsula (give or take)
Total watts: I'm guessing close to 1200 watts at max (chiller, lights at full, heaters at full)
Lights: hanging from ceiling

Here's what I'm going to talk to my contractor about, but I'd love any input or suggestions, especially if I'm missing anything or I'm delusional about something or another.

Tank Support
- Support area under tank to hold 2500 lbs (adding a bit more to this estimate based on feedback)
- Support an area of 72" x 54" on the floor (tank + a bunch of friends standing around it)

Electrical
- 2x Ethernet CAT6 cables routed to the media console (one for Apex, another as redudancy)
- Two dedicated 20A circuits to two wall outlets with GFCI
- One extra GFCI outlet connected to a home shared circuit
- Outlets need to be above the sump level, so to be safe I'll have them at 20" above the floor.
- Positioned behind or just to the side of the tank
- Summary: 3 total circuits (2 dedicated 20A, 1 shared)
- Use: I'll divvy up the equipment on the 2 dedicated 20A, and then some of the minor items on the shared circuit (maybe, at least it's good to have that as an option)

Plumbing
- Drain in the floor under the cabinet
- The tank stand won't have a "floor," but I'm planning to get a custom "pan" 3D printed or something and I'll cut a hole in it for the drain. I may also use this for water changes.
- RODI line to the stand. I'll use an APEX FMM controlled solenoid + optical sensors + manual float valve to top-off my reservoir. I actually do this already for my current tank, so I'd just move the system over
- I was thinking of 1/2" PVC from where my water mixing station would be, but I'm not really sure if that'll work out well. I might just walk through the house with some buckets as a workout every week.

Hanging Light
- I will have 2 ReeFi Uno LEDs hanging. They're REALLY light weight.
- Run a 2x4 piece of wood that's 48" long in the ceiling above the tank so I can mount or maybe just plywood across the top with the same footprint that's connected to the beams (what's best here?)
- Snake a long power cord extension from ceiling down the wall and out of a grommet (this will make a clean power cord, I could also just have an outlet in the ceiling since these lights are controlled via WiFi and not going to connect with my Apex)

Exhaust Duct
- I'm going to put a 1/4 hp chiller in a cabinet behind the tank (I'm taking over a bit of one of the kitchen cabinets on the other side of the wall)
- I want an exhaust duct in that cabinet with a fan. Duct will exit through the ceiling through the cabinetry. I'm thinking a simple 4" duct, with the fan that is temp controlled maybe?
- Cabinet should also have some kind of air flow into it, or maybe it will just pull through the seams
- Looking into the EVR that was posted in the thread.

 

[RandyC]

- Add a drain to a sewer line for water changes So you don’t have to haul buckets around. Also consider a drain port to sewer for skimmer cup Drainage
- Add plumbing to connect directly to saltwater mixing station and RODI.
- run Ethernet so you can hardwire Ethernet enabled devices like an apex

 

[H2OPlayar]

I'm doing a remodel of the house in the next 4 - 6 months (depending on when permits get done). I'm planning on a tank, but since a lot of the house is getting ripped up and rebuilt, I'd like to get it ready for a new tank the right way. I'm not made of money, but I will spend where I can.

Tank: 48" x 30" x 22" peninsula (give or take)
Total watts: I'm guessing close to 1200 watts at max (chiller, lights at full, heaters at full)
Lights: hanging from ceiling

Here's what I'm going to talk to my contractor about, but I'd love any input or suggestions, especially if I'm missing anything or I'm delusional about something or another.

Tank Support
- Support area under tank to hold 1800 lbs (over estimation?)
- I have a 3-4' crawlspace under the house, so I'm hoping they can build in some nice 2x6 with posts into concrete underneath
- Support an area of 55" x 36" (just a few more inches everywhere as a buffer)

Electrical
- Two dedicated 20A circuits to two wall outlets with GFCI
- One extra GFCI outlet connected to a home shared circuit
- Positioned behind or just to the side of the tank
- Summary: 3 total circuits (2 dedicated 20A, 1 shared)
- Use: I'll divvy up the equipment on the 2 dedicated 20A, and then some of the minor items on the shared circuit (maybe, at least it's good to have that as an option)

Hanging Light
- I will have 2 ReeFi Uno LEDs hanging. They're REALLY light weight.
- Run a 2x4 piece of wood that's 48" long in the ceiling above the tank so I can mount or maybe just plywood across the top with the same footprint that's connected to the beams (what's best here?)
- Snake a long power cord extension from ceiling down the wall and out of a grommet (this will make a clean power cord, I could also just have an outlet in the ceiling since these lights are controlled via WiFi and not going to connect with my Apex)

Exhaust Duct
- I'm going to put a 1/4 hp chiller in a cabinet behind the tank (I'm taking over a bit of one of the kitchen cabinets on the other side of the wall)
- I want an exhaust duct in that cabinet with a fan. Duct will exit through the ceiling through the cabinetry. I'm thinking a simple 4" duct, with the fan that is temp controlled maybe?
- Cabinet should also have some kind of air flow into it, or maybe it will just pull through the seams

Deja vu, haha.

We just had a tank talk today with my contractor talking about a lot of this. Let me know if you have any questions. My math says ~2400 lbs for my tank, which is barely bigger.

 

[Qwiv]

The 2 circuits and floor support, clutch idea. I would suggest an ERV instead of just an exhaust fan. It is only a few hindered bucks more. Basically it is air in and out in a box that will heat or cool the incoming air by passing the exhaust air over it recovering the heat. They make kits that are small and cheap. Also helps with humidity and buildup CO2. You don’t need to duct it to the stand as long as stand is ventilated. Just have it in the ceiling.

Panasonic FV-04VE1 WhisperComfort 40 CFM 0.8 Sone Ceiling | Build.com

www.build.com

Cheap ERV


Adding a chase to your water station for new and old water is really nice as well and is cheap when all the walls are open.

 

[JVU]

The 2 circuits and floor support, clutch idea. I would suggest an ERV instead of just an exhaust fan. It is only a few hindered bucks more. Basically it is air in and out in a box that will heat or cool the incoming air by passing the exhaust air over it recovering the heat. They make kits that are small and cheap. Also helps with humidity and buildup CO2. You don’t need to duct it to the stand as long as stand is ventilated. Just have it in the ceiling.

Panasonic FV-04VE1 WhisperComfort 40 CFM 0.8 Sone Ceiling | Build.com

www.build.com

Cheap ERV


Adding a chase to your water station for new and old water is really nice as well and is cheap when all the walls are open.

I haven’t seen that before but the idea is neat, thanks for sharing. I’m going to have to read more about them, mostly how well the temperature exchanger works.

 

[CaseyP]

Are you planning on having a frag tank? My display tank is in the middle of the living room as a visual centerpiece so I don't want to have frag racks hanging in there or laying randomly in the tank. I have my frag tank in a separate room/floor, but I wish I had plumbing running between the two systems to tie them to the same sump so I'm not maintaining two systems. Just a thought for future proofing.

- Support area under tank to hold 1800 lbs (over estimation?)
- Support an area of 55" x 36" (just a few more inches everywhere as a buffer)

Don't forget X number of friends standing around admiring the tank at 100lbs+ each. Floor won't break but it can flex so might as well expand that support area.

The 2 circuits and floor support, clutch idea. I would suggest an ERV instead of just an exhaust fan. It is only a few hindered bucks more. Basically it is air in and out in a box that will heat or cool the incoming air by passing the exhaust air over it recovering the heat. They make kits that are small and cheap. Also helps with humidity and buildup CO2. You don’t need to duct it to the stand as long as stand is ventilated. Just have it in the ceiling.

Never new that existed! Keeping this in mind for future big build.

 

[Qwiv]

I haven’t seen that before but the idea is neat, thanks for sharing. I’m going to have to read more about them, mostly how well the temperature exchanger works.

They have various levels of quality, exchanger size. Only recommendation is to undersized it and run almost constant, unless it’s a windows open day for example. Old uninsulated houses have no need. These are for houses that don’t leak air like a sieve. They are great for a basement or a humid fish room.

 

[iani]

I haven’t seen that before but the idea is neat, thanks for sharing. I’m going to have to read more about them, mostly how well the temperature exchanger works.

I have one in my office, I leave it on at all times. Not sure how well it works though.

 

[iani]

I used these on piers to support my floor, home when I had my 225 and now at work. https://ellismanufacturing.com/collections/screw-jacks/products/ellis-4x4-screw-jack

 

[Qwiv]

I used these on piers to support my floor, home when I had my 225 and now at work. https://ellismanufacturing.com/collections/screw-jacks/products/ellis-4x4-screw-jack

The only problem with those is the important part is the concrete foundation, not the post unless you are blessed with bedrock under the house. By the time you make a proper footing, cutting a 4x4 to the right length is trivial. You need to assume the dirt your house is jello until you know otherwise. Can they be good enough, sure depending on your risk tolerance and your soil. These are used all the time and I have them under my house too but they are not permanent. I have to adjust mine yearly and if there was an earthquake, they would not hold. Mine if just leveling a portion of floor that the doors don’t remain square and close correctly, so it’s not a must have in that case.

 

[iani]

The only problem with those is the important part is the concrete foundation, not the post unless you are blessed with bedrock under the house. By the time you make a proper footing, cutting a 4x4 to the right length is trivial. You need to assume the dirt your house is jello until you know otherwise. Can they be good enough, sure depending on your risk tolerance and your soil. These are used all the time and I have them under my house too but they are not permanent. I have to adjust mine yearly and if there was an earthquake, they would not hold. Mine if just leveling a portion of floor that the doors don’t remain square and close correctly, so it’s not a must have in that case.

Makes sense, but I was told by a friend who is a building inspector in SF (civil engineer) that it should be more than enough for a tank my size. As for an earthquake, I'm not betting on my tank surviving a big earthquake.

 

[Qwiv]

They have various levels of quality, exchanger size. Only recommendation is to undersized it and run almost constant, unless it’s a windows open day for example. Old uninsulated houses have no need. These are for houses that don’t leak air like a sieve. They are great for a basement or a humid fish room.

Forgot to add, if it is for a room that is constantly humid, you could make the argument for an HRV. Similar item, but it will constantly pull humidity out vs balance it like an ERV. @JVU think you are in a non-humid part of the Eastbay. Might be better for you. Research both and your local weather.

 

[Qwiv]

Makes sense, but I was told by a friend who is a building inspector in SF (civil engineer) that it should be more than enough for a tank my size. As for an earthquake, I'm not betting on my tank surviving a big earthquake.

Why my answer was more nuanced. The right solution in one instance does not necessarily translate to another, so I tend to be more conservative with a recommendation unless more information is known. It’s easy to naively copy someone’s solution to a problem that works for them and may not work for you given the variances in homes, tank size and location, etc.

 

[Prestondeeply]

I haven’t seen that before but the idea is neat, thanks for sharing. I’m going to have to read more about them, mostly how well the temperature exchanger works.

I just installed one of these in a basement apartment. Fits in the joists horizontally or vertically between studs. Also, it is made to maintain heat _and_ moisture separation. So if there is a storm or fog bank outside it doesn't bring all of the damp air inside. I think the same goes for the reverse so it isn't likely to remove moisture from an internal environment. It is very quite and can exchange all of the air in my install in under 30 minutes!

 

[kinetic]

The 2 circuits and floor support, clutch idea. I would suggest an ERV instead of just an exhaust fan. It is only a few hindered bucks more. Basically it is air in and out in a box that will heat or cool the incoming air by passing the exhaust air over it recovering the heat. They make kits that are small and cheap. Also helps with humidity and buildup CO2. You don’t need to duct it to the stand as long as stand is ventilated. Just have it in the ceiling.

Panasonic FV-04VE1 WhisperComfort 40 CFM 0.8 Sone Ceiling | Build.com

www.build.com

Cheap ERV


Adding a chase to your water station for new and old water is really nice as well and is cheap when all the walls are open.

This is pretty interesting!

I was just going to vent the chiller, which will be in a kitchen cabinet (not the actual stand, I don't think I'll have enough space in there). That cabinet will have a hole somewhere that I can route the water lines in/out as well as a power cord, but I worry that it'll get way too hot in there which is why I was going to vent it. The rest of the house is getting a new heat pump to cool/warm the home when I'm around, though if I'm not home it'll be off. Would it make more sense to just have the cabinet be wide open somehow? Is the ERV even needed then in my living room with climate control?

I guess I could put this thing inside the cabinet with the chiller... but seems a bit overkill.

 

[Qwiv]

I just installed one of these in a basement apartment. Fits in the joists horizontally or vertically between studs. Also, it is made to maintain heat _and_ moisture separation. So if there is a storm or fog bank outside it doesn't bring all of the damp air inside. I think the same goes for the reverse so it isn't likely to remove moisture from an internal environment. It is very quite and can exchange all of the air in my install in under 30 minutes!

To kinda understand the difference, pretend one side is 100% humid and the other is 0%.
HRV will exchange the air and blend the temp, but not humidity, so you are pulling in whatever the outside humidity is and exhausting the inside to the outside.
ERV blends temp and humidity so you get 50% humidity in and 50% out. It is not perfectly efficient, but that is basically it in a nutshell. You end up with the avg inside/outside difference.

Neither will be perfect for all days, but the blending approach if typically the right solution for most locations most of the time. You can also turn either off if it is say raining outside.

 

[Qwiv]

This is pretty interesting!

I was just going to vent the chiller, which will be in a kitchen cabinet (not the actual stand, I don't think I'll have enough space in there). That cabinet will have a hole somewhere that I can route the water lines in/out as well as a power cord, but I worry that it'll get way too hot in there which is why I was going to vent it. The rest of the house is getting a new heat pump to cool/warm the home when I'm around, though if I'm not home it'll be off. Would it make more sense to just have the cabinet be wide open somehow? Is the ERV even needed then in my living room with climate control?

I guess I could put this thing inside the cabinet with the chiller... but seems a bit overkill.

I'd just vent the cabinet and the heat will get out. Hi/Lo vent or all open. Have your heat pump maintain a reasonable inside temp even with a chiller.

The EVR (or something similar) is actually really important with Heat Pumps systems because a heat pump is not moving air in/out of the home like a conventional HVAC unit. You need some way to manage fresh air. A typical HVAC air handler brings in something like 15% outside air through the unit and that was how you would get fresh air inside. Heat pumps don't exchange inside/outside air so you can get stale air in homes using just heat pumps. If you are planning to replace a house system, considering fresh air is a must and an EVR by the tank benefits the house and the tank. Tell the person designing the HVAC system and they will find you the right solution for your particular install.

 

[Qwiv]

Forgot to add why you should not have a chiller in the stand depending on an exhaust fan to remove the heat. What happens when that fan dies on a hot day with the house AC off and you are a plane ride away? Do you even get a notification before the chiller nukes itself and then the tank so you can react?

 

[kinetic]

Forgot to add why you should not have a chiller in the stand depending on an exhaust fan to remove the heat. What happens when that fan dies on a hot day with the house AC off and you are a plane ride away? Do you even get a notification before the chiller nukes itself and then the tank so you can react?

That is true. I was thinking the duct would be open regardless, the fan would just help move air. But I don't know about that to understand. I think I may just have a permanent "vent" or just leave a hole in the cabinet that would provide plenty of air flow.

I really like thinking about extremes like this, just so that everything can be thought of (obviously within reason).

 

[kinetic]

I had a quick chat about our HVAC system, and after all that, the contractor is pushing me to get a traditional A/C unit instead, so I think we won't be going the heat pump direction afterall.

I still need to talk to him in detail about the tank setup, but I'll wait until I have a lot more thought out.