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Tank crashing slowly .. help

newfly

newfly

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Young tank, started Jan this year, 65G. Everything growing well in the first 6-7 months. Around July, noticed Alk drop and i started dosing Carbo Calcium then switch to All For Reef.

Most parameters are stable, except for Alk. Attached is the alk chart since May. I'm now dosing 20ml/day All for Reef and 2ml Sodium Nitrate to maintain ~5ppm nitrate
Phosphate is around 0.08, Mag 1300, Calcium 400

As you can see, there was a Alk swing, from 6.5 --> 9.5. I accidently (manual) double dose the All for Reef. Due to the delay in the alk increase after dosing, i did not realized this after the next day or so. Except for this incident, Alk is btw 7.5 to 8.5. I am not able to keep Alk constant. Maybe the tank consumption is not constant. That is the only explanation i can think off. I switch to All for Reef in July. I cannot find powder form of CarboCalcium and make the switch. Reading how @JVU lost a bunch of corals with his experience with powder from of All For Reef make me nervous.

Anyhow, coral start bleaching. Starting with green birdnest (wife fav) and now red monti and digitata. Frogspawn not fully open. Some corals (sunset monti, purple stylo, rock flower, and zoas) are still doing well.

I went back to twice a week 10% WC. ( i did once a week in July ).


Anything I can do so save this tank? Work have been crazy, plus looking at a dying tank make it worst.

@H2OPlayar @Srt4eric You guys are close by, any chance you can drop by and help me diagnose the problem? I'm running out of ideas.

One thing i could do is switch back to CarbCalcium liquid, but i don;t think that is the problem.
 

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I would recommend a simple 2 part like brs bar and or esv etc…
It takes time to dial in dosing, but it will be simpler than the all for reef I think.
as for what to do now? Hard to say. Don’t over react. Do switch from all for reef. It will take time for whatever fallout you’ve already triggered at their point to finish.
live and learn. All those corals can be given back to you easily enough. No big deal. I know it sucks, but this is how we learn in this hobby. Main thing is to learn from it.
 
I have buckets of both soda ash (alkalinity) and calcium chloride (calcium). @newfly , come over with liquid tight bottles and I will give you 2 part solution. If you want, I will also set you up with the red sea trace elements I am using, but that isn't as necessary if you do moderate water changes for trace elements and just use the 2 part for ca and alk. I also have dosing pumps you can borrow.

Edit: On the water changes, I would switch to 20% every 2 weeks, as 10% doesn't remove that much, and your tank likely isn't consuming trace elements that fast, especially if we switch over to 2 part.
 
I would stick it out with AFR. You should get over the hump and start recovering. IMHO more change is not what your tank needs right now.
 
svreef said:
I would stick it out with AFR. You should get over the hump and start recovering. IMHO more change is not what your tank needs right now.
Click to expand...
I would say this is correct, if you want to stick with AFR long term. Still feel free to come over tomorrow and chat or get some solution as a backup.
 
@newfly reading through the thread.... i don't think it's your alk/ca dosing that's causing the issue . Bird's nest, frogspawn and the monti aren't sensitive to alk and ca.

Does AFR contain trace elements? If so, the double dosing could be causing some elements to be too high...which may be the cause.

Otherwise, when did the color loss happen? Immediately after AFR? Or some other timeline/event?
 
Btw, in a pinch... or as an alternative baking soda will do the trick for alk. I use soda ash which is baked baking soda but use to use straight baking soda exclusively. I use soda ash because i want a bit of pH to get nudge up per dose...

Alk consumption is not constant in a tank typically as a side note
 
Not saying alk and ca are for sure the issues. Swinging them around isn’t going to help. When @JVU had problems with AFR he thought that it could have to do with it adding a carbon source as well and that triggering a bacterial bloom. This could also be part of your issue IMO
 
Coral reefer said:
I would recommend a simple 2 part like brs bar and or esv etc…
It takes time to dial in dosing, but it will be simpler than the all for reef I think.
as for what to do now? Hard to say. Don’t over react. Do switch from all for reef. It will take time for whatever fallout you’ve already triggered at their point to finish.
live and learn. All those corals can be given back to you easily enough. No big deal. I know it sucks, but this is how we learn in this hobby. Main thing is to learn from it.
Click to expand...
This.
 
Dumb question but with regards to nitrate dosing, could you skim less or feed more?

I went down that path once upon a time and in hindsight it felt really dumb to do versus just feeding something like reefroids, aminos, more fish food, etc if I wanted dirtier water.
 
NanoCrazed said:
@newfly reading through the thread.... i don't think it's your alk/ca dosing that's causing the issue . Bird's nest, frogspawn and the monti aren't sensitive to alk and ca.

Does AFR contain trace elements? If so, the double dosing could be causing some elements to be too high...which may be the cause.

Otherwise, when did the color loss happen? Immediately after AFR? Or some other timeline/event?
Click to expand...

Its not immediate. I would say after 1-2 weeks the i noticed the color lost. AFR contains trace elements.
 
xCry0x said:
Dumb question but with regards to nitrate dosing, could you skim less or feed more?

I went down that path once upon a time and in hindsight it felt really dumb to do versus just feeding something like reefroids, aminos, more fish food, etc if I wanted dirtier water.
Click to expand...

I'm dosing really small amount 2ml/day. I kept my skimmer 24/7 and feed normal. Nitrate have been stable around 5-10ppm
 
Is mixing AFR and soda ash a no-no? On one hand, i think besides the double dose mistake, the alk is close to ~8. Ideally i would like to get to 8.6 which is the alk on my new saltwater water mix.
Can i use soda ash to increase from 8-->8,6?

Or i'm asking for trouble mixing these 2?
 
personally, i wouldnt trust just one additive for all the elements needed. i would try the 2 part - better way to have a grasp on each BIG 3 parameters. i am a fan of kalk and then 2 part as additional supplements with additional mag if needed.
 
Together or separate?

Reef Chemistry Calculator

reef.diesyst.com

I've had that book marked for years and use that whenever I have to calculate an ad-hoc dose.

Soda ash or baking soda are the two common items for DIY alk supplement.

Id assume you are doing this separate to bump alk.
 
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