High Tide Aquatics

Torch flesh peeling back from the bottom?

IOnceWasLegend

IOnceWasLegend

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So I'm having an issue that's driving me up a wall and could use some help.

I've had multiple torches in the past couple months die - a holy grail, cotton candy HG, and now my rapunzel is suffering the same thing. They're not BJDing - the heads look mostly fine, maybe a little deflated, but then the flesh slowly recedes from the base over the course of several days or weeks until it reaches the rim, then recedes inward, then the torch dies.

I've tried the KFC coral dip multiple times with no success (including the pre/post peroxide treatmenet) on these torches. I've done an in-tank cipro treatment with no success. It's not flatworms of any kind, since I dipped them in coral RX and have watched them like a hawk, and nothing. It's not a flow issue, or a lighting issue, since it's affected multiple torches in multiple areas of the tank, but most of the torches in the tank are fine and healthy.

I am getting extremely frustrated by this and could use some help.
 
IOnceWasLegend said:
Red Sea Coral Pro salt. Phosphate has been between 0.02 and 0.08-9, nitrates between 5 and 15.
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Interesting, Me and a few buddies use Red Sea Pro as well and have been having the same issues you described. We haven't been able to pin down the problem either. Have you noticed the salt when mixed is a bit more brown sometimes?
 
Mr2KiEu said:
Interesting, Me and a few buddies use Red Sea Pro as well and have been having the same issues you described. We haven't been able to pin down the problem either. Have you noticed the salt when mixed is a bit more brown sometimes?
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A bit sometimes. I've been using this salt for over a year now, though, and have only been having this issue with one torch at a time over that timeframe.
 
Mr2KiEu said:
Interesting, Me and a few buddies use Red Sea Pro as well and have been having the same issues you described. We haven't been able to pin down the problem either. Have you noticed the salt when mixed is a bit more brown sometimes?
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Same, I've been using Red Sea Pro for about 4 months, since then I've slowly lost 1 torch at a time and a few hammers. I'm currently down to a green splitting double and my Knicks is just about to lose one of the 3 heads, the other 2 are still looking fluffy and healthy.There are no signs of bacterial disease on the Knicks, but recessing tissue has been very rapid. I have plans on just going back to good ol cheap, trusty and simple IO reef crystals which has given me years of success.
 
It seems like every salt has bad batches but I’ve heard of fritz and redsea having a higher percentage. I’m really sorry to hear about your torches!
 
Mr2KiEu said:
What salt are using?
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Tropic Marin Pro. Used the same salt with the RO water they gave me though so the salt def isn't the issue. I did find tons of black plastic bits in the filter below my DI canister that may have contributed to the problem. Running chemipure and carbon didn't fix anything and my ICP came out with no metal issues besides low TEs.

I just really like how fast clean the TMP mixes up!
 
Ohhh that’s right, you picked up the 2 buckets made in Germany from me. Are you still using only Germany buckets? Might switch back to TMP after I use up all RSP salt.
 
Mr2KiEu said:
Ohhh that’s right, you picked up the 2 buckets made in Germany from me. Are you still using only Germany buckets? Might switch back to TMP after I use up all RSP salt.
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Actually got it from Robert at Neptune! Confirmed it wasn't a Turkish lot and it mixes super clear unlike the bad batches. A bucket lasts me a long time though since I only have a 29 gal system.
 
You do in tank cipro dosing yet? What you saying sound like bacterial infection. If dips like kfc isn’t working it’s probably what’s already in the tank that’s affecting it. I had issue like that where the flesh is receded so much that if put flow on flesh it is loose. Took me forever to figure out.. did icp test change salt. Change wave. What work for me is cipro dosing. And decrease the wave maker intensity to not blast the bottom flesh part of the torch. Monitor if the flesh move during high flow time.

You should use brightwell restor, it’s great for torch flesh! I mix Red Sea ab+ And brightwell restor into my torch coral spot feed.
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Danhsj said:
You do in tank cipro dosing yet? What you saying sound like bacterial infection. If dips like kfc isn’t working it’s probably what’s already in the tank that’s affecting it. I had issue like that where the flesh is receded so much that if put flow on flesh it is loose. Took me forever to figure out.. did icp test change salt. Change wave. What work for me is cipro dosing. And decrease the wave maker intensity to not blast the bottom flesh part of the torch. Monitor if the flesh move during high flow time.

You should use brightwell restor, it’s great for torch flesh! I mix Red Sea ab+ And brightwell restor into my torch coral spot feed.View attachment 41787View attachment 41788
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It looks like Josh did an in tank Cipro treatment before, but I'm wondering if dosage and duration (plus age of antibiotics) could be a factor? What is your regimen @Danhsj ? I know for treating mammals it takes days of consecutive treatment so I'm wondering if that one shot @IOnceWasLegend did wasn't enough?
 
@Danhsj I have been dosing Restor, and did an in-tank cipro treatment last week following the guide on Humble Fish, with no change.

I've also recently had an explosion of vermetid snails, which I was made aware of the extent of them when I did a water change, stirred up some detritus, and saw tons of mucus strings. Given the location dependency of torch death, the fact that one of my torches (on the sand bed) has been doing fine, and the fact vermetid snails stinging the bottom of flesh could cause this recession, I'm wondering if that may be the case. I'm doing a dip of my affected rapunzel torch today, and I'm going to try and put it on a frag rack in the tank away from any vermetids.

Related note: I'm pretty sure the answer is "purge your rockwork", but is there any in-tank method to treat (or knock back) vermetid snails? I've been gluing the tips of some, but they keep getting worse.
 
IOnceWasLegend said:
@Danhsj I have been dosing Restor, and did an in-tank cipro treatment last week following the guide on Humble Fish, with no change.

I've also recently had an explosion of vermetid snails, which I was made aware of the extent of them when I did a water change, stirred up some detritus, and saw tons of mucus strings. Given the location dependency of torch death, the fact that one of my torches (on the sand bed) has been doing fine, and the fact vermetid snails stinging the bottom of flesh could cause this recession, I'm wondering if that may be the case. I'm doing a dip of my affected rapunzel torch today, and I'm going to try and put it on a frag rack in the tank away from any vermetids.

Related note: I'm pretty sure the answer is "purge your rockwork", but is there any in-tank method to treat (or knock back) vermetid snails? I've been gluing the tips of some, but they keep getting worse.
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You can manually kill them pretty easily with small bone cutters or needle driver (or needle nose pliers). You just crush the base. Goes fast. Much faster than trying to glue them or laser them or whatever.
 
If you can pull rocks out it’s very doable to get almost all of them pretty
JVU said:
You can manually kill them pretty easily with small bone cutters or needle driver (or needle nose pliers). You just crush the base. Goes fast. Much faster than trying to glue them or laser them or whatever.
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quickly
 
I visited a tank months ago that was over-run with vermetids, some really 'nice' 5-6" by 1/4" tubes all over. Owner said, "I don't have any 'bad' pests in the tank" but at the same time had a lot of coral in half dead state (3 out of 6 hammer heads were dead, many acans had mouths clearly stung/skeleton exposed, etc). They were definitely doing a lot of damage in that tank but it wouldn't be noticeable unless you saw the strings. But it got me thinking.....do reefers consider vermetids as bad pests or just normal tank pests that are just part of the hobby and fairly easy to get rid of mechanically?
 
Prestondeeply said:
I visited a tank months ago that was over-run with vermetids, some really 'nice' 5-6" by 1/4" tubes all over. Owner said, "I don't have any 'bad' pests in the tank" but at the same time had a lot of coral in half dead state (3 out of 6 hammer heads were dead, many acans had mouths clearly stung/skeleton exposed, etc). They were definitely doing a lot of damage in that tank but it wouldn't be noticeable unless you saw the strings. But it got me thinking.....do reefers consider vermetids as bad pests or just normal tank pests that are just part of the hobby and fairly easy to get rid of mechanically?
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I think of them as less of a pest than bristle worms and some people don’t think of those as a pest at all. They both could be considered clean up crew yet can cause problems at high levels. Vermetids are just so easy to kill and don’t multiply that fast. Plus most of the time they don’t cause problems.

If they are hurting your coral or other livestock then they are a pest, but pretty easy to deal with in my experience.
 
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