I have one of the ammonia badges. I have prime I believe would that be sufficient or no?
Would one badge be good or is this something that should be replaced during the treatment?
My first Fish copper Qt treatment
- Thread starter MichaelB
- Start date
Would one badge be good or is this something that should be replaced during the treatment?
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If I call correctly, Randy Holmes-Farley (basically the #1 authority of reef hobby chemistry) does not recommend using Prime to try to reduce ammonia in a reef tank. If you see ammonia going up best course of action is a large water change.
I also ordered the one Thomas refrenced just to be safe. I think he meant maybe if it's a emergency like oh crap thing. I assume as you mentioned water change would be the key method. Not that I would intend to rely on the ammonia remover stuff in place of water changes.
yep, thats correct.. I would also add more bottled bacteria to reduce Ammonia in addition to large water change
Another thing I would suggest is to ramp up the copper power slowly.. start at 1.5 and reach 2.25 in 2 days (anything between 2 to 2.5 is therapeutic).. meanwhile if any fish shows symptoms of stress in Copper, you can move it out of Copper
thanks for sharing pics.. are they still eating? Unless it's velvet which may wipe the tank in 24-48 hours, ich will give you enough time to react and move the fish if they are still eating and look active.. so you should have enough time to setup your hospital tank the 'right' way.. Fish facing the wave-maker is a really bad sign too.. PBT I lost before I went the Copper Power route on my blue tang was continuously facing the wave-maker and lying down on its side a day before its demise, so look out for that as well.. Copper Power works like magic, within couple of days, a lethargic fish will look all charged and begins to eat and have no visible white spots.. you should do the full course anyways as per the QT guide on HF
Here is the deep dive on why Prime does not work for lowering ammonia in reef tanks.
A Deep Dive on Ammonia Neutralizer Chemistry - Prime, ClorAm-X, Rongalite and friends.
Summary (the whole thing in one paragraph) ClorAm-X is the best-performing of a barely effective product concept. Under the label usage ClorAm-X (but not Prime, or other common products) can be measured to lower the amount of total ammonia in a saltwater sample. This process is slow...
www.reef2reef.com
Alm are still eating. I've dealt with velvet. It's been well over a week and a half at this point. I think it's ick.
I would recommend against ramping copper. That is only used for certain species of fish. Go to the HumbleFish forum or the fish medic threads on Reef2Reef. The recommended approach is to not ramp copper. Doing so reduces the potential effectiveness of medicated QT.
I did some research when cycling my tanks.. Someone did an experiment on R2R comparing a few options and Turbostart cycled the tank the fastest.. Since time is of essence for you, I would suggest you also go with TurboStart Fritz 900 (not Dr Tims).. here is the thread with the details if interested
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/n...-equal-whos-who-and-what-do-they-need.989780/
I believe Puffers are in that sensitive to Copper list, hence recommending this route since it gives time to react if puffer is acting stressed
Yeah its definitely not velvet, and I wasnt suggesting that either
Was saying since its ich, you should have enough time to set the hospital tank the right (cycled) way without skipping a step or 2.. Good to know everybody is eating well! Feed more, with vitachem/selcon/lipo garlic.. Setup UV when you are in the fallow period
Coral reefer
Past President
No net for puffer. Ideally a large pot or bowl. Keep it in water. If they puff up in the net it’s no good, and if they try to when out of water also no good.
Turkeysammich
Moderator
I’m gonna go against what some of you guys said. I’m not a fan of fast ramping copper. I’ve done it in the past. I think it shocks the fish. They become extremely lethargic. Even when I slow ramp. 0.25-0.5 over 6-8 hours. Some fish are still tweeky. It something takes 3-5 days for the fish to over come appetite suppression. The only time I fast ramp is when I’m against the clock. Like velvet.
Also. Some types of fish. I don’t like to pass 1.75. That’s the minimum of therapeutic level. Some hardier fish can go up to 2.25-2.5 but they get tweeky. Some die up at that level. You gotta remember. Copper is poison. Your trying to kill the ick or whatever before the copper kills your fish.
Also. Some types of fish. I don’t like to pass 1.75. That’s the minimum of therapeutic level. Some hardier fish can go up to 2.25-2.5 but they get tweeky. Some die up at that level. You gotta remember. Copper is poison. Your trying to kill the ick or whatever before the copper kills your fish.
I would recommend following a protocol developed by professionals who work for public aquariums and who have quarantined more fish than any hobbiest will ever deal with. HumbleFish has a very active forum focused on fish disease. I personally follow the protocol outlined by the fish medic team at Reef2Reef. It addresses most of the issues in this thread and was developed by persons who take care of fish professionally:
www.reef2reef.com
Current Quarantine Protocol
2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...
www.reef2reef.com
So after hearing all the feed back on the koi pond and looking at how low it is to the ground. Don’t ask me why meh but I made a complete turn and started another project that likely went a little further than necessary.
I broke out saws, drills, and other tools. It took me a few hours yet I was rushing through it only aiming for adquate not perfect as it's not meant to be a permanent fixture.
I ordered two 40 breeders from petco, they were 50% off got a slight discount for buying online and picking up in store. After I picked up the tanks, I made a trip to Lowe's and bought a few 2×4s.
I ensured all the black bottom reams are directly onto of a 2×4.
The bottom two by fours were secured to the upper cross ran two by fours with counter sunk screws just to ensure nothing shifts around.
The other day during my homedepot trip to grab the 4 inch elbows, I also ended up picking up another shop light originally intended for the back half of my livingroom when doing tank maintenance. They are insanely bright and over comes all the blue lights so you can actually see the sumps and stuff while cleaning and doing water changes. The light was diverted for the qt project, so I can see the condition of the fish with the super bright lights. It would only be used for water changes on qt system and inspection of the fish. Not continuously as to not stress out the fish.
The biggest hesitation on my part was the cost and lack of a stand to put them on. After comments from a few of our older members I brainedstorm how could I make it work. Than it hit me days later while cooking at work. I have this stack of camping stove, made from steel and iron. A 40gallon tank with water rock and sand can weigh 6-800 lbs. With water only makes out around 400. Surely these stoves can hold that weight being i could jump up and down on them with zero fear.
So I used three side by side and made the makeshift frame to rest under both tanks. Everything is staggered so that the weight is mostly equal distributed. They are directly onto of my garages cement slab. So no give or shifting about is likey.
Now I need to see them up and actually get the nerve to fill them up and get things going. My only dreadNow is when the time actually comes to try catching all these freaking fish without emptying the tank.
I broke out saws, drills, and other tools. It took me a few hours yet I was rushing through it only aiming for adquate not perfect as it's not meant to be a permanent fixture.
I ordered two 40 breeders from petco, they were 50% off got a slight discount for buying online and picking up in store. After I picked up the tanks, I made a trip to Lowe's and bought a few 2×4s.
I ensured all the black bottom reams are directly onto of a 2×4.
The bottom two by fours were secured to the upper cross ran two by fours with counter sunk screws just to ensure nothing shifts around.
The other day during my homedepot trip to grab the 4 inch elbows, I also ended up picking up another shop light originally intended for the back half of my livingroom when doing tank maintenance. They are insanely bright and over comes all the blue lights so you can actually see the sumps and stuff while cleaning and doing water changes. The light was diverted for the qt project, so I can see the condition of the fish with the super bright lights. It would only be used for water changes on qt system and inspection of the fish. Not continuously as to not stress out the fish.
The biggest hesitation on my part was the cost and lack of a stand to put them on. After comments from a few of our older members I brainedstorm how could I make it work. Than it hit me days later while cooking at work. I have this stack of camping stove, made from steel and iron. A 40gallon tank with water rock and sand can weigh 6-800 lbs. With water only makes out around 400. Surely these stoves can hold that weight being i could jump up and down on them with zero fear.
So I used three side by side and made the makeshift frame to rest under both tanks. Everything is staggered so that the weight is mostly equal distributed. They are directly onto of my garages cement slab. So no give or shifting about is likey.
Now I need to see them up and actually get the nerve to fill them up and get things going. My only dreadNow is when the time actually comes to try catching all these freaking fish without emptying the tank.
Impressive speed of action and very nice setup!
One tip on catch the fish: Use a large net and have some sort of way to divide the tank. If you can remove all the rock work then that makes things a lot easier. I have a 10+ inch net that you can borrow if you don’t have one at least that size (I can’t remember the exact size of my net since I am on the road).
PjFish
Supporting Member
Didn’t realize the QT process was 64 days plus another ten- 14 day observation period so 75 days. Plus 75+ is the recommended days to go fishless to kill ich in the DT supposedly! Some great points in that QT article link some screenshots take aways. But make sure you use 100 % pure quartz silica sand since that does not absorb copper if your thinking about substrate for extra bacteria and wrasses . The regular bags of silica sand sold at HD/Lowes etc are mixed with regular sand so stick with pool or contractor supply stores..
@MichaelB whats your plan with the Dt? Its still pretty new system only been up with water since Octoberish ? My first thought was to just reset it like qt corals in your frag system. Tossing all structures and media in rodi barrel for a couple days will eliminate ich. Refill tank with rodi and running it will kill ich in the whole system. Then your garrenteed to be clean.
But seeing now how long the fish qt process is which is comparable to fishless is a wash it appears..Haven’t dealt with this since the 80’s sorry! Best of luck. Id definitely have a 55 barrel of premixed copper water always ready at the go to make water changes alot easier since you will be doing alot of next few months!
@MichaelB whats your plan with the Dt? Its still pretty new system only been up with water since Octoberish ? My first thought was to just reset it like qt corals in your frag system. Tossing all structures and media in rodi barrel for a couple days will eliminate ich. Refill tank with rodi and running it will kill ich in the whole system. Then your garrenteed to be clean.
But seeing now how long the fish qt process is which is comparable to fishless is a wash it appears..Haven’t dealt with this since the 80’s sorry! Best of luck. Id definitely have a 55 barrel of premixed copper water always ready at the go to make water changes alot easier since you will be doing alot of next few months!
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I won't restart the display. I will go the fallow route. I have lots of coral and clean up crew if they haven't all been taken out by the wrasses yet. I don't wanna set up another tank to put coral into. Nor would I consider putting them into a existing tank.
I'm not fully certain what route of qt I will follow. Likely something from humble fish. I've saw both 14 days and 30 days. I'm waiting on a few more items to arrive for the tank a extra heater for second tank, two hang in back filters for added flow that I will stuff with sechem matrix and another ammonia alert badge and one for ph.
Today I filled the tanks with water. Added pipes. I will add bottle bacteria in hob filters when they arrive and some extra media in mesh bags just inside the tank. I also ordered two bigger fish nets to improve my odds of catching the fish lmao.
Still more research to do but starting to come together.
Last project before fish is trying to make use of extra screen netting I had left over for these tanks to prevent fish's from jumping.
I also need to figure out how to divide up the fish. So far I will likely keep all the tangs together with their aggression I don't want to start over introducing them again.