Thinking about switching salt

[Patio]

I use tropic marin pro on weekly water changes.

The only other things I add to the tank are 1ml daily of flat worm exit (mostly for the iodine), kalkwasser and lots of various fish food. No additional mag or trace elements. I should check and add mag though as it has been 4 years. It is a slow running tank. A Volkswagen Beetle rather than a Porsche 911.

 

[Alexander1312]

Did someone say we should be starting a big debate? Let me give this a go since starting debates is my specialty .

I tend to agree that the salt itself will not make your tank more or less successful.

However, this does not mean that the salt itself can be very helpful to get you there easier.

A lot of the folks who use the bare-bone salt use a ton of additives, calcium reactor, check with ICP, etc., to make sure their delicate SPS or more demanding LPS get what they need, and which they would not get from a basic salt alone. When you do this for some time, you tend to forget all the activities that run on autopilot, and when someone just inquires about one aspect, i.e., salt, the answer seems to be not taking into consideration everything that matters.

So claiming that no one needs to worry about the salt is not the advice I support, since with everything in reefing, it depends, and there are pros and cons.

On the lower end of the expectations, certain tanks are fine with only a good salt and regular water changes. On the lowest end of these expectations, a cheap salt might do the trick. On the higher end of the lower expectations, a better salt might give you better results without the need to worry about additives.

On the higher end of the expectations, there are several paths you can go - feel good about spending less on a salt and spend more money on one part, two parts, three parts, ICP-driven specific corrections, etc. It might make sense financially; I have not done the math. Alternatively, you set a higher baseline by being already closer to target parameters with a higher-quality salt, and then only fine-tune with some additives. Ultimately, both will get you similar or even the same results, but I claim that it is easier with a higher-quality/better-balanced salt.

The last aspect one can consider is how ‘clean’ the salt is (not necessarily how clean it mixes). The environment in which these are being produced is different. If you do not mind if your salt has some additional stuff in there that should not be in the salt, and that your ICP provider might not necessarily be able to identify, then you might not be willing to pay more for it.

There are reasons why one salt is more expensive than another; this is not one of the things in reefing which is mostly marketing. Raw ingredients and employee safety costs (e.g., if fluoride is added to the salt) determine the price, in addition to the sodium chloride production itself.

 

[iani]

Did someone say we should be starting a big debate? Let me give this a go since starting debates is my specialty .

I tend to agree that the salt itself will not make your tank more or less successful.

However, this does not mean that the salt itself can be very helpful to get you there easier.

A lot of the folks who use the bare-bone salt use a ton of additives, calcium reactor, check with ICP, etc., to make sure their delicate SPS or more demanding LPS get what they need, and which they would not get from a basic salt alone. When you do this for some time, you tend to forget all the activities that run on autopilot, and when someone just inquires about one aspect, i.e., salt, the answer seems to be not taking into consideration everything that matters.

So claiming that no one needs to worry about the salt is not the advice I support, since with everything in reefing, it depends, and there are pros and cons.

On the lower end of the expectations, certain tanks are fine with only a good salt and regular water changes. On the lowest end of these expectations, a cheap salt might do the trick. On the higher end of the lower expectations, a better salt might give you better results without the need to worry about additives.

On the higher end of the expectations, there are several paths you can go - feel good about spending less on a salt and spend more money on one part, two parts, three parts, ICP-driven specific corrections, etc. It might make sense financially; I have not done the math. Alternatively, you set a higher baseline by being already closer to target parameters with a higher-quality salt, and then only fine-tune with some additives. Ultimately, both will get you similar or even the same results, but I claim that it is easier with a higher-quality/better-balanced salt.

The last aspect one can consider is how ‘clean’ the salt is (not necessarily how clean it mixes). The environment in which these are being produced is different. If you do not mind if your salt has some additional stuff in there that should not be in the salt, and that your ICP provider might not necessarily be able to identify, then you might not be willing to pay more for it.

There are reasons why one salt is more expensive than another; this is not one of the things in reefing which is mostly marketing. Raw ingredients and employee safety costs (e.g., if fluoride is added to the salt) determine the price, in addition to the sodium chloride production itself.

I don't think anyone wants to debate with you. Haha

 

[blink]

I found this podcast to be very helpful. Starting at around 1:28:00, he talks about all the different salt.

 

[H2OPlayar]

I don't think anyone wants to debate with you. Haha

I disagree strongly, now I want to debate you!

 

[thephoreefer]

I love using Red Sea blue bucket because it matches my ideal parameters. Doesn’t swing so it doesnt stress my corals during water change. Also mix well and doesn’t leave residue in mixing container. I keep my alk around 8.0. 435 ca and 1350mag

 

[kinetic]

I've been using Aquaforest Reef Salt. It's fine in that it mixes well and it's always available to purchase. I've tested the MG levels and they're always sky high and my tests always max out in reading it. I've brought it to different LFS and they all get the same. I've used AF reef salt for at least 7+ years or more.

That being said, my most successful tanks were using NSW that I got from a LFS. So after talking enough with @Kensington Reefer, I'm going to be going with NSW for the next tank.

 

[Turkeysammich]

Let’s. See. What have I used over the years. Mostly reef crystals for about 15 years. Then IO purple bucket for 10 years. Then they got too expensive. At the beginning of the year I bought a pallet of two little fishy’s salt. It was a one time deal. I’m almost done with that salt. I really like it. I have been looking for a salt to switch too for a while too. I just bought two cases of reef evolution. I spoke with the rep at RAP earlier this year. It’s a French company that makes IO and RC for Europe. They mine the salt different that other companies. Plus they add trace/ bio foods. To support micro nutrients. dunno if it’s any good or not. US distribution is by dr Tim.
Yeah. Whatever salt you choose. It will work. Just depends on how you add it to your aquarium and how much supplements/trace you add to get it to where you want. Or not. Depending on how you reef.

 

[andyman]

I prefer not doing water changes and simply topping off. I run ICP test to measure trace elements and I add back required trace elements. I find that no matter which salt you use, you'll deplete some trace elements that water change won't be enough to cover. And to top it off, water changes will through off trace element balance (if your dosing specific trace elements). I haven't changed water in 2 years and my corals are exploding. I had to give away my softies because they were taking over the tank and my SPS's are going nuts with growth.

 

[mac96]

I prefer not doing water changes and simply topping off. I run ICP test to measure trace elements and I add back required trace elements. I find that no matter which salt you use, you'll deplete some trace elements that water change won't be enough to cover. And to top it off, water changes will threw off trace element balance (if your dosing specific trace elements). I haven't changed water in 2 years and my corals are exploding. I had to give away my softies because they were taking over the tank and my SPS's are going nuts with growth.

This sounds interesting, I haven’t dosed anything in my tank since I’ve started the tank up I always did 50% water change every 2 weeks but now I dose only Alk because I can’t keep up with.

 

[mac96]

My question to you guys, what trace elements do you guys dose or what should I be dosing other then Alk,cal, and mag?

 

[newfly]

My question to you guys, what trace elements do you guys dose or what should I be dosing other then Alk,cal, and mag?

You need ICP test to guide you with trace elements. My approach is dosing 1/2 recommended trace elements ( like seachem reef trace) , and adjust based on next ICP test. I don’t pay for the test often, maybe twice a year.

 

[PjFish]

I use tropic marin pro on weekly water changes.

The only other things I add to the tank are 1ml daily of flat worm exit (mostly for the iodine), kalkwasser and lots of various fish food. No additional mag or trace elements. I should check and add mag though as it has been 4 years. It is a slow running tank. A Volkswagen Beetle rather than a Porsche 911.

You dose daily Flatworm exit ( Levamisole hydrochloride) ? I don’t think their is any iodine in flatworm exit..
Unless your talking about KZ flatworm stop which is just iodine and water I believe..

 

[Patio]

You dose daily Flatworm exit ( Levamisole hydrochloride) ? I don’t think their is any iodine in flatworm exit..
Unless your talking about KZ flatworm stop which is just iodine and water I believe..

Sorry about the confusion. I use the one with iodine that does not nuke flat worms like the other.

 

[H2OPlayar]

My question to you guys, what trace elements do you guys dose or what should I be dosing other then Alk,cal, and mag?

Used to use red sea ABCD with great sucess. Moved to the Balling method and like that more theoretically, but my tank is still too new to see real results. My ICP did come back good using this method of minimal to no water changes and dose only.

You need ICP test to guide you with trace elements. My approach is dosing 1/2 recommended trace elements ( like seachem reef trace) , and adjust based on next ICP test. I don’t pay for the test often, maybe twice a year.

Need to is a strong word. With Balling and Red Sea you dose off of your alk consumption and that gives you a pretty dead on number you need.

 

[FinalPhaze987]

My question to you guys, what trace elements do you guys dose or what should I be dosing other then Alk,cal, and mag?

I would focus on your main elements and organics first.

Salinity and alk- both of these should be rock solid and you have a good feel for your consumption. Adding traces changes their consumption and not having a good idea of your tanks swing can make it a moving target.

Ca,mg - similar to alk, but not as important to put at the tip of the list.

No3, PO4- if these aren't in check adding iodine and iron to a tank with algae issues would be like throwing gas on a fire. Make sure these are stable before anything.

Lastly, you may not need to add any at all. With the WC you do, it may suffice. It's for your 90 gal correct? I wouldn't worry too much about them until you start keeping SPS. Get a good routine down for the basic elements and nutrient export and that should take you far. An ICP test will tell you what your lacking, but if your tank is doing good without any additions, let it do its thing.

 

[mac96]

I want to thank everyone who answered my questions about which salt I should use and whether I should be dosing trace elements. I was just thinking about dosing more than the main things I already add, and maybe trying something different. The reason I asked about trace elements is because I’m trying to cut back on water changes and rely more on dosing. But honestly, it might be a bad idea to change my routine right now. it’s risky, and I don’t take risks because things usually go bad for me.

 

[H2OPlayar]

I want to thank everyone who answered my questions about which salt I should use and whether I should be dosing trace elements. I was just thinking about dosing more than the main things I already add, and maybe trying something different. The reason I asked about trace elements is because I’m trying to cut back on water changes and rely more on dosing. But honestly, it might be a bad idea to change my routine right now. it’s risky, and I don’t take risks because things usually go bad for me.

How big a system is it?

There are a number of reefers who dose as a primary method, myself included. I always looked at the root cause of why are you changing the water? Then fix that problem.

I would encourage you to do it, but be smart. Go slowly, and have a solution for each problem, and a backup (which can be water change)

What specifically do you think is a risk? Read my 168 and my 300 journal to see what my two systems that don't rely on water changes with dosing look like. Then look at my 45, 35, and 120 to see what other tanks look like with minimal water changes, but also no dosing. Happy to answer any questions you have. Keep going, you are going to learn a lot.

 

[MichaelB]

Is there a specific you're want to back up on water changes?

I won't advocate for or against.

I personally do water changes weekly without fail on my 40gallon sps tank. Dose all for reef, and use esv 2 part and magnesium for adjustments. I use coral hub forbidden elixer to cover most of the traces.

Nem tank water change maybe every other week.

Frag tank, I've never done a water change since it's been running. I haven't done one in the 210gallon tank either yet.


I would say however if it's difficult, a hassle or a burden doing a water change on a tank maybe review the methods you use to preform the water change. Sometimes there is a better or more efficient way to do them. I spend 3 times longer mixing the salt and checking the salinity of the new water than actually changing the water.

The right pump and extra long hose can make it crazy easy. A saltwater mixing container on wheels could also make part of it easier roll the water closer to the tank.

Empty container on wheels to pump the water out that your replacing also makes part easy.


But nothing beats a super long hose and a pump to drain water and than refill the tank.

For refilling my ato resivors I have a 50 foot hose put the end of hose into resivors turn on pump. Right now it's a switch that turns it on and off. If I wanted easier I would consider a wifi outlet turn on and off with phone.

Sorry for rambling but if it's only because the work or time involved feel free to reach out and we can discuss your methods and figure out some ways to make things eaiser and efficient.