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DIY LED PAR value

Flagg37

Flagg37

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When I had researched building my own LED light I wasn't sure that what I built would have an adiquate PAR value. I was wondering about those of you that have built your own, what kind of PAR values do you get and do you feel that the money you saved was worth the effort?
 
Its definitely worth it if you like tinkering with equipment and DIY stuff.

Im not an electronics DIY kinda guy so I purchased lights that were ready to turn on.

I really like these new light fixtures that have built in wifi for light control via your phone/tablet/computer. AI, kessil, radions?. The older AI/kessil light fixtures required you to buy a separate controller to have automated programmable color and intensity control.

Not sure but i dont think many people incorporate wifi into their DIY fixtures. I do think some of the DIY ones do incorporate some sort of connection cable/knobs for programmable color control/ramping.

@HiFidelity I think you built your own LED unit?
 
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Hi, I sure did build my own fixture, rebuilt it a few times too haha.

I don't have or remember my PAR values but I can say that a DIY fixture can compare to any brand name fixture you choose to compare it to, of course the virtue is in the fact that you can configure it to your desired configuration be it color, output or efficiency. Without typing up a lengthy post considering the complexity and staggering amount of info that can be discussed in the topic I'll simply make some personal recommendations;

-You need to know how to solder, do some math and be comfortable with basic electric circuitry
-Don't expect this to be the cheapest choice, think quality first
-More LED's dimmed down > less LED's cranked up, in terms of efficiency, heat output, quality of light beam and longevity
-Don't skimp on LED chips, I will basically no longer purchase anything that isn't CREE or Philips
-Use LDD drivers to power the LEDs
-PWM dimming/control is key
-Good control is very important, can be incorporated into a controller like APEX & Reef Angel or run independently in which case I like Storm-X LED controllers

We had a long long discussion on spectra and such, I can dig it up and share the link if you guys like :)
 
Well here's an old thread... and unfortunately image hosting site went to pay, so all the data/images I had is gone (I might have the values on a backup drive somewhere)
http://www.bareefers.org/forum/threads/mikes-led-light.15874/
but I had fairly high values in air with lenses, but I wouldn't use this as a baseline, in I opted for no lenses in over water, and get values 100-300 or so, is it as bright as I like? eh... I'm sacrificing overall intensity for coverage though.

DId I feel money was saved, yeah sure I guess, at least compared to the higher end fixtures like the Radion or Hydra. The big BIG desire was not so much saving money though, but more of getting exactly what I want (which I still probably didn't get :D), I hated all the fixtures out there with the red LEDs that were thrown in, felt it was a waste of an LED socket, so I built my own. I wouldn't have done it either if I wasn't able to get solderless LEDs/connectors, there's just too much pain in it for me.

A controller is absolutely a must too, half the point of getting LEDs is that you can ramp up/down colors which is something you can't really do with conventional lighting, except maybe turning on T5 bulbs at different intervals. I will say the "lazy factor" is definitely helpful with this too, more times than I'd like to admit I left my metal halide (or T5) bulbs in way longer than I should "Hey I still see light, it must be fine!" with LEDs they last quite a few years, and while they do get dimmer over time, very often you can compensate with more power or something... or you could just pull out a PAR meter and see how much they dipped in output.

And if you want something like Ender mentioned, look into the BlueFish controller, it allows for all that smartphone/wifi connection goodness.
 
I checked out the ledgroupbuy link. It looks good but what in addition to the $100 LED would I need? They mentioned connectors, a heatsink, and a power source. How would I control it (ramp up/down, intensity, color)?
 
Flagg37 said:
I checked out the ledgroupbuy link. It looks good but what in addition to the $100 LED would I need? They mentioned connectors, a heatsink, and a power source. How would I control it (ramp up/down, intensity, color)?
Click to expand...

Heatsink is a must for all LEDs
You would need some sort of LED driver, Meanwell LDD ones are a pretty good choice in low cost but very efficient drivers, now if you want each channel to fire off by itself each channel needs a driver, I think they're about $8 a piece, or you could tie some channels together one driver can do 12-13 LEDs IIRC, so minimum of 3 drivers would be necessary, since that chip is set into 5 channels of 5 LED per channel. Then you need a power supply too, to handle the wattage and make sure you have proper voltage. I think you can get Meanwell PSU in the $40-50 range. Lastly if you want more than just on/off functionality you'd need a controller, there are many types out there depending upon your needs/desires, on the cheaper side of things there's the Typhon driver ($45) something like a BlueFish controller($100 for the mini $200 for the full size) would be a bit more pricey, you could get away with an Apex as well but adding all the modules to make that work plus the fact they tend to not like PWM (Unless things changed) you'd need to convert the signal... I'm not a fan of that. Oh yeah probably want a fan to cool your heatsink down too, and a way to power that :D

Overall it wouldn't surprise me if you spend $300+ for it, that's the tricky thing with LEDs, the cost tends to go down the more you add, because your power supply can handle more than one, your controller can handle more than one, etc. If you were doing just one, I would probably lean towards just buying a Kessil fixture, although you'd need a controller for that if you want more than just on/off functionality.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Heatsink is a must for all LEDs
You would need some sort of LED driver, Meanwell LDD ones are a pretty good choice in low cost but very efficient drivers, now if you want each channel to fire off by itself each channel needs a driver, I think they're about $8 a piece, or you could tie some channels together one driver can do 12-13 LEDs IIRC, so minimum of 3 drivers would be necessary, since that chip is set into 5 channels of 5 LED per channel. Then you need a power supply too, to handle the wattage and make sure you have proper voltage. I think you can get Meanwell PSU in the $40-50 range. Lastly if you want more than just on/off functionality you'd need a controller, there are many types out there depending upon your needs/desires, on the cheaper side of things there's the Typhon driver ($45) something like a BlueFish controller($100 for the mini $200 for the full size) would be a bit more pricey, you could get away with an Apex as well but adding all the modules to make that work plus the fact they tend to not like PWM (Unless things changed) you'd need to convert the signal... I'm not a fan of that. Oh yeah probably want a fan to cool your heatsink down too, and a way to power that :D

Overall it wouldn't surprise me if you spend $300+ for it, that's the tricky thing with LEDs, the cost tends to go down the more you add, because your power supply can handle more than one, your controller can handle more than one, etc. If you were doing just one, I would probably lean towards just buying a Kessil fixture, although you'd need a controller for that if you want more than just on/off functionality.
Click to expand...

$300 is not exactly cheap but still a substantial savings over $500 for the kessil (a360 + controller). Like you said too, if I needed several of them it's practically another $100 each additional one instead of $400 for each new kessil.
 
You might want to take a look at the Chinese black box LEDs. They seem to have a good following and not far in price from $300. Many have changed the LED layout to whatever ratio of spectrum they like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Flagg37 said:
$300 is not exactly cheap but still a substantial savings over $500 for the kessil (a360 + controller). Like you said too, if I needed several of them it's practically another $100 each additional one instead of $400 for each new kessil.
Click to expand...
Here's what I did, when I figured out what I wanted to do, I put prices into a spread sheet, and figured out actual cost based on what was needed. When all was said and done it was a few hundred dollars cheaper than a cheaper fixture I was looking (Maxspect Razor) and actually gave me closer to what I wanted, so I went in that direction.
 
Flagg37 said:
I checked out the ledgroupbuy link. It looks good but what in addition to the $100 LED would I need? They mentioned connectors, a heatsink, and a power source. How would I control it (ramp up/down, intensity, color)?
Click to expand...
I would suggest starting here:
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/how-to-builds/
http://www.ledsupply.com/diy-led-projects
And search online. There are quite a few write ups on how to DIY LEDs.
Get comfortable with the concepts.

For control specifically, you can connect them to Apex, Reef Angel, or other controllers.
Or get something like this:
http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/makers-controller-sunrise-sunset-controller-for-makersdriver/

That said: If you are uncomfortable with the engineering needed, I would suggest buying one instead.
As above, you really do not save all that much, and a couple of mistakes may be costly.
 
Vhuang168 said:
You might want to take a look at the Chinese black box LEDs. They seem to have a good following and not far in price from $300. Many have changed the LED layout to whatever ratio of spectrum they like.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

People do talk crap about those ebay Chinese boxes, but from what i've seen visiting people's tanks, they grow zoas/LPS like mad! I probably would get those china boxes if I was reefing on a budget any more than I already am. Especially considering my spending habits which is cheap equipment/expensive livestock. I skimp on equipment but I make sure to spend the bare minimum to make my Aquarium Maintenance as easy as possible. Because its usually the maintenance that makes people quit the hobby.
 
I was previously running a RapidLeds setup. I needed more light so I picked up a Kessil 360w.

Working with DIY leds isn't that big of a deal. I used U-channel aluminum to build a frame to hold the LEDs, and used thermal epoxy to afix them.

I would definitely go with the DC to DC drivers like the Meanwell LDD; much more flexibility over the two large monolithic AC-DC drivers I used with my old setup.

I'm going to revisit DIY leds once again when I convert my daughter's old 2g cube tank into a nano for work.
 
The problem with cheap LED systems:
1) Color
Cheap LEDs are not binned tightly, so color/temp will vary all over the place.
Plus, the deep violet is expensive, so expect that to be limited.
This affects PAR as well. Which may explain why zoas/softies do well.

2) Efficiency
There is a big difference in LEDs as far as Lumens/Watt. Cheap ones are usually lower.
And again, binning makes a big difference here.

3) Power supplies
An easy way to save money is to go cheap on the power supply. Especially given
the constant current requirements.
* This is key, because it can cause very early failure of the system. *

4) Safety and reliability
Are they really UL listed? Are they somewhat enclosed from salt creep?

---

So, it could cost half as much, but last half the time.
 
rygh said:
The problem with cheap LED systems:
1) Color
Cheap LEDs are not binned tightly, so color/temp will vary all over the place.
Plus, the deep violet is expensive, so expect that to be limited.
This affects PAR as well. Which may explain why zoas/softies do well.

2) Efficiency
There is a big difference in LEDs as far as Lumens/Watt. Cheap ones are usually lower.
And again, binning makes a big difference here.

3) Power supplies
An easy way to save money is to go cheap on the power supply. Especially given
the constant current requirements.
* This is key, because it can cause very early failure of the system. *

4) Safety and reliability
Are they really UL listed? Are they somewhat enclosed from salt creep?

---

So, it could cost half as much, but last half the time.
Click to expand...
I assume when you say, "cheap LED systems" you're referring to the Chinese black box LEDs that were recommended?
 
"spectral shift" is my ONE reason why I will only run Cree or Philips, the cheap chinese chips and yes these are the ones used in 99/100 blackbox LED fixtures, I only know of 2 retailers selling CREE blackbox fixtures and they just got their hands on them 2 months ago, one of them is barely making it to the market (I shot the product photos for the retail site they're on).

Basically cheap chinese chips age faster, by this I mean the color wavelength they have when new is not going to be the same a year or two down the line. I've seen it happen on my own fixture which is using Bridgelux & Epileds which are the better of the chinese offerings and frankly I'm convinced the overall spectrum of my fixture is not even close to what it was when I first built it.

This still happens w/ the CREE & Philips chips but it would take 5 times longer to get there and the effect would not be quite as severe, also this brings me back to the point about chip efficiency because cheap chips do it faster the higher they're cranked, so us SPS guys when we're running our fixtures at 80% plus, compare the chip temp between CREE and a generic chip the difference is the wear ratio of your LED and we're not even talking about durability at full output (another aspect where quality chips trump generic ones).
Another note on degradation of chips, I've yet to find violet or uv chips that last nearly as long as blue & white chips, thus those multichip boards (bunch of LEDs on one pcb) what happens to the spectrum when the UV has degraded yet whites & blues are still at full output?
 
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