High Tide Aquatics

I have ICH! Couldn't be happier! Buying more fish tomorrow! Thoughts?

Dyngoe

Dyngoe

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Some of you are reading this because of the title assuming that I'm either dumb or sarcastic. Well, neither is true. My latest purchase should have been QT'd, but he looked very healthy and I have no patience. Go ahead, give me the I told you so, it will fall of deaf ears. ;)

But, then why am I happy and why am I buying more fish? Four reasons:
1. I already have to setup a QT tank for my existing fish so why not buy the others I want and do it all at once?
2. When I put my new tank together I was a little rushed. Since I'll have to remove the rock to catch all the fish, I now get to do it the way I planned.
3. After treated I can get rid of my extra clown fish.
4. Best of all I have a legitimate excuse to tell my wife why I'm buying new fish and redo-ing the rocks.

So, barring any unwanted deaths I am excited to have ich in my tank and I have no problem saying it. ;D

**Serious**If you have any hints or suggestions for battling ich I'll take them. I'm planning on running the whole gambit beyond ich over the next few weeks: a few FW baths for whatever, 6 weeks of cupramine, 1 week of Furan for the heck of it. I think I'll stay away from hypo-salinity, but who knows maybe I'll give that a go as well.
 
Talk about the glass being half full...

We should all look at life in such a fashion. :D

BTW, your treatment plan sounds pretty good to me. Watch the clowns though, I read somewhere that they are sensitive to copper just like their symbiotic hosts.

You could try Crypto-Pro (quinine sulfate) from National Fish Pharmaceuticals.
 
Hypo-salinity would be much less stressful on the fish than copper, IIRC. The only thing is that the treatment period is going to be around at least one month, which to me, is quite a while - and I am like you, in that I am not patient either :)
 
If you have a relatively small QT, I'd say skip the hypo and skip the treatments (unless it gets bad). Instead concentrate on keeping your salinity at 35ppm and your water as pristine as possible. Use small rubber hosing to siphon out all food and waste every day and do a 10% daily change with water from the main tank. I think the most important part of a QT is oxygenation, since the tank is small you can really bubble the heck out of it with a cheap skimmer or air stones. Next is feeding your fish a balanced healthy diet, lots of people really like garlic fortified or Vitamin C.

One last piece of advice, make sure your QT is covered!!! I think the combination of the small tank and the air bubbles gives them wings. I've lost two fish in QT to carpet surfing :(
 
[quote author=seminolecpa link=topic=5195.msg64179#msg64179 date=1226685064]
Forgive me if I am wrong on this but doesn't copper in many ways only mask problems vs. actually taking care of them?
[/quote]

yes, copper is scary stuff, for aquatic organisms its like chemotherapy, not say it won't treat ich, its just really nasty stuff will ruin your QT to anything w/o a vertebrae.
 
Hey Bryan - Unless I am wrong, Copper (or cupramine) will kill ich when it is not attached to a fish along with any other invert.

Josh - my QT tank will be a 55G tank 50%-70% filled so it can hold my 11 fish. It has a built in overflow I have to avoid and I'll be using my canister filter filled with some live rock from the main tank. I of course plan on tossing the rock after I am done. ;) My only real concern is my Mandarin. I've already started growing brine for him but that will be a PitA for 8 weeks. :(
 
I tohught the best treatment for ich was to put it in a bare bottom tank, so that the ich thingies jump off looking for sand in preperation of the second stage of their life before jumping back onto the fish...but then hit bare tank and somehow die.

V
 
My hippo started showing signs of ich a few weeks ago. I just started feeding food soaked in galic and erythromycin (can't it's in large enough doses to do anything but what the heck) and she is toughing it out and looking good so far. I think in my case it's because she is getting cramped and a little stressed but who knows. All my fish are eating well and are fat and appear happy so I'm going to belay ripping out all the rock to QT them and hope they tough it out.
 
When I bought my Hippo Tang, it started showing signs of Ich (I did not quarantine him). I have several clownfish in the tank. What I did to battle this was using fresh garlic. I chopped the garlic in small pieces (puree) and mix it with some fish pellets (add some saltwater so that the pellets soften and absorbs the garlic's juice). Just toss it in the water and the fish will feed on them. 2 weeks later the ich dissapeared.
 
[quote author=Dyngoe link=topic=5195.msg64191#msg64191 date=1226687005]
Hey Bryan - Unless I am wrong, Copper (or cupramine) will kill ich when it is not attached to a fish along with any other invert.

Josh - my QT tank will be a 55G tank 50%-70% filled so it can hold my 11 fish. It has a built in overflow I have to avoid and I'll be using my canister filter filled with some live rock from the main tank. I of course plan on tossing the rock after I am done. ;) My only real concern is my Mandarin. I've already started growing brine for him but that will be a PitA for 8 weeks. :(
[/quote]
[quote author=Vincerama2 link=topic=5195.msg64193#msg64193 date=1226687185]
I tohught the best treatment for ich was to put it in a bare bottom tank, so that the ich thingies jump off looking for sand in preperation of the second stage of their life before jumping back onto the fish...but then hit bare tank and somehow die.
[/quote]

Cryptocaryon is a protozoan, It has three/four stages. For simplicity 1) On the fish, 2-5days 2) mobile in the water, 24hrs 3) Encysted in substrate 4) back in the water to find feeding host.

So yes, bare bottom tank (I put lacquered flower pots for hiding) is easiest to clean. I might skip the canister filter and just use a cheap skimmer or air stone so not to harbor the cysts in the substrate.

If you clean/siphon off 10% of the water from the bottom of the tank ever day it will help reduce the # of cysts, the 10% will help remove the active parasites from the water column.

You can also increase the temperature to increase to life cycle of the crypto, but if you do this you definitely have to have good oxygenation and water changes, as ammonia will become more toxic with the pH and temperature.
 
Thanks Jelly, Levi and Josh for your experiences and insight.

Here are my thoughts:
1. Garlic has been shown to improve the immune system of fish but doesn't "kill" the ich in the tank. So while my fish may get healthy now it is no guarantee for the future.
2. I plan on running the 55G BB with some PVC for shelter. Perhaps I'll do the ceramic pots so I can use them later (don't know when I'll use 2" PVC). ;) But the tank needs some biological filtration until the bacteria grow on the walls and PVC so I think the easiest way is with some rock in the canister. I think the copper will help kill the mobile ich and hopefully the speed of the water running through the canister will minimize the amount encrusting on the rock. After a few weeks I'll kill the canister and just run a small skimmer. Oooo, also I plan on pumping air in the canister filter to help oxygenate the water.
3. Thinking ahead I know I'll be adding more fish and my corals are only going to get more encrusted on the rocks. This is the last time I do not QT a fish so I thought I may as well buy a few more now and get it over with all at once. Also, I can go in and fix the problems I have noticed with my tank now that it has been running for a few weeks. I'll never get a chance like this again and I want to be ready for the BAR swap in Feb.

So, as you see QT'ing the fish is not only for them but for me and my corals. It's a great excuse to clean up the tank, buy some new fish and get it all "clean" for the future. ;D
 
Dyngoe...so you are putting your ich-infested fish into a QT, then you are buying new fish and putting them IN THE SAME QT as the infected fish? Won't this infect ALL your NEW fish?

Or am I missing something here?

V
 
You are not missing anything Vince. You are absolutely correct. However, I have a different way of looking at it....

I currently only have one fish showing signs of ich and it is minor (3-4 specks on a side). So it's not a full blown catastrophic infestation or anything like that. I know that means the whole tank and most likely every fish is already infected but I believe once they hit the QT the existing ich will die off quickly and recurrences will be light. Any fish I bring in may already have ich and need to be QT's. If it doesn't then it may catch it in my current scheme. But, in a QT tank with cupramine and regular water changes it will most likely only get a light infestation at worst. At best it won't get any infestation and will simply go through the QT process with it's new tank-mates.
 
[quote author=Dyngoe link=topic=5195.msg64087#msg64087 date=1226643854]
1. I already have to setup a QT tank for my existing fish so why not buy the others I want and do it all at once?
[/quote]

Because your QT tank will provide little biological filtration. Adding more fish is a recipe for an ammonia spike. I think it would be wise to QT and treat the fish you already have, then after you've moved those back to the display tank, buy and QT the new fish.

I've never had a fish die of ich, but I've had fish die of poorly planned and executed ich treatment.

Personally I prefer hypo over copper. If you do use hyposalinity though, be sure to properly buffer the water to normal SW alkalinity to prevent PH drops.
 
[quote author=A_Lee link=topic=5195.msg64141#msg64141 date=1226678241]
Hypo-salinity would be much less stressful on the fish than copper, IIRC. The only thing is that the treatment period is going to be around at least one month, which to me, is quite a while - and I am like you, in that I am not patient either :)
[/quote]

It need to be a month regardless. The month long wait is to rid the display tank of ich. (it can't last that long without a host)
 
I am going through the ich problem right now myself .. Couple changes to what has been said so far.
First increasing the temperature will NOT speed up the life cycle of "Marine Ich"
This does work for "Fresh Water Ich" but NOT for Marine Ich.

The tank must be fallow for at least 6 weeks for all the Ich to die off, I myself am shooting for 8 weeks, just to be safe.

I am using hyposalinity as treatment for all my fish. I think this will be the safest and most effective way to treat the fish.

I think purchasing and Qt'ing the new fish durring the same time period is a good idea, but I would not use the treatment tank, I would set up another Qt tank if available.
 
Thanks All, great questions and insight again.
P- Yes, I am also worried about the ammonia spike so I will be taking many precautions. First, I will run a canister filter with LR from the sump for at least the first two weeks. Also, I threw some filter socks on my drains earlier this week that I plan on soaking in the tank for a while. The hope here is to get some bio filtration setup. I plan on doing daily water changes or at least alternating daily water changes so this should help minimize any issues. I hread mixed reviews about hypo-salinity but I may try it along with cupramine (the only verified cure for ich).

Lyn - Well, velvet and other diseases are a concern of mine so along with the Cupramine in the QT I plan on doing a few FW baths, Formalin dips and finishing off the QT with clean water and a round of Prazipro. I figure I may as well give them all a "full cleaning" while I have the time. Plus, I plan on adopting out three of my clowns and I don't want to risk passing anything along to them.

Raaaaaiiiideeers!!!! - :D I may just setup a separate QT tank. I don't want to deal with two, but I'd rather get it all taken care of at once. I don't want to setup another QT tank in the future and have to wait another 6-8 weeks.
 
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