got ethical husbandry?

Im15 Fusion

MichaelB

MichaelB

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I've been cycling a im15 for over a month now, lights have been off the entire cycle beyond a total of 10mins for pics over whole course of the cycling.

I added a bottle of dr tims one and only fishless cycle - when I began cycling the tank. I have not done any water changes only manually topped the tank off with rodi water. I started off with plain rodi water and reef crystals salt.

I chose not to add anything from my existing tanks to this one, not wanting to risk introducing asterinas, spoinards/ bristle worms etc.

I only have the filter sock installed no carbon or other filter media.

About 5 days ago I noticed clear string stuff in water and on rocks.

Tank has zero diatoms, or any other alage. There is also nothing alive in the tank except I started with caribsea and the dr tims. All the rock was brand new dry rock.

I'm not sure what live stock I want in this tank, have even considered going completely fishless coral only and snails or shrimps.
As mentioned above nothing is currently the tank at all.

The sand is completely clear the dark spots hinted at in picture is only shadows from the rocks.

Out of all the times I've started new tanks this is a first for me. Not sure if I should be concerned? Seeking any feedback solutions if it's a actual problem? or is this nothing to worry about and something that will go away on it's own?
 

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Hmm yeah that's definitely be one problem. If you're doing fishless you need a source of ammonia to feed the bacteria for the nitrogen cycle to actually occur. So the tank is likely not cycling at all.

Dr. Tim's has ammonia you can buy.

www.drtimsaquatics.com

Solution for Fishless Cycling | Ammonium Chloride | DrTim's Aquatics

DrTim's solutions to add ammonium chloride during fishless cycling in conjunction with using One & Only Live Nitrifying bacteria.
www.drtimsaquatics.com www.drtimsaquatics.com
 
Yup. I agree. ^. Starting with dead rock dead sand. Sets you back a year to a year and then half. Dunno about all this new fancy rock and sand. If it’s quicker. In the first year. You’ll struggle with everything and grow all the nasty stuff until you reach a turn point.
 
So if I addded a few coral from another tank, ie zoas or mushrooms that would not be helpful as well? None of my nicer ones of course.
I will look at getting ammonia.
 
Ammonia is only needed when doing a fishless cycle. You can throw a raw shrimp in and it will do the same. Just slower. That’s why people use it use damsels to cycle an aquarium. For the pee and poop. You can ghost feed raw foods and it will also do the same. Just slow.
Aquariums are not clean. The whole idea of a clean sterile environment is incorrect. You need to build that biome. But yes. If you add hardy corals , it’s just adding biome. But if your biome isn’t ready. The corals will die.
Experience reefers add corals from the get go and make it look easy but it’s deceiving because they know what they are doing and ride that thin biome line.
 
Turkeysammich said:
Ammonia is only needed when doing a fishless cycle. You can throw a raw shrimp in and it will do the same. Just slower. That’s why people use it use damsels to cycle an aquarium. For the pee and poop. You can ghost feed raw foods and it will also do the same. Just slow.
Aquariums are not clean. The whole idea of a clean sterile environment is incorrect. You need to build that biome. But yes. If you add hardy corals , it’s just adding biome. But if your biome isn’t ready. The corals will die.
Experience reefers add corals from the get go and make it look easy but it’s deceiving because they know what they are doing and ride that thin biome line.
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Yes, this is the first time I've tried fishless. I didn’t wanna get stuck with a fish I don't actually want that would turn into a cat and mouse game to catch it afterwards.

I have a pajama cardinalfish I had considered adding to it as but don't wanna add anything living with that weird snot looking stuff.

I'll add some ammonia and give it more time.
 
IMO fishless is the humane way to do it, subjecting fish to wild ammonia swings is probably not great for them. But honestly unless you have active pest problems in your other tank, you're probably good to add matured rock from there and it'll speed up the cycle a good bit. Right now you're probably looking at another 3-6 months starting with dry rock and dry sand, Dr Tim's and dosing ammonia or ghost feeding.
 
jonmedina said:
IMO fishless is the humane way to do it, subjecting fish to wild ammonia swings is probably not great for them. But honestly unless you have active pest problems in your other tank, you're probably good to add matured rock from there and it'll speed up the cycle a good bit. Right now you're probably looking at another 3-6 months starting with dry rock and dry sand, Dr Tim's and dosing ammonia or ghost feeding.
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No real pests but those annoying asterinas. Going by high tide later today, may see if, I can buy a small peace of live rock or some sand from one of his tanks. Mine all have corals attached.

Thanks for taking time out to give me feed back.
 
derek_SR said:
@MichaelB you want me to bring you a little piece of rubble from my sump today?

I am with @Turkeysammich - seed with some real rock rather than whatever is in that bottle!

Buy some cheap corals from Kenny and stick those in now too, get some life going! I just don’t subscribe to the “add a bottle and leave it in the dark for months and months” approach.
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I would appreciate the rubble.

I have plenty of corals I could add, just didn't want to risk killing anything
 
MichaelB said:
I would be intrested if, it’s still recommended to add some ammonia? if I get some live rock rubble for the tank?
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Honestly just cut off the plugs from your corals in established tanks then leave them in the dark in the new tank with a little bit of ghost feeding shrimp the tank every few days like Will mentioned.

None of the hitchhikers you mentioned are bad per se and asterinas are pretty easy to control if you don't want them.
 
MichaelB said:
I would appreciate the rubble.

I have plenty of corals I could add, just didn't want to risk killing anything
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I will bring a chunk for you!

Remember too, corals consume ammonia - they don't need to wait for a cycle to complete, that is for fish. I think sometimes waiting too long can be detrimental - a biome forms that's not natural or similar to an established tank because so many pieces of the puzzle are still missing (your funky stringy bacteria here being one example!).

I know this is a hotly debated topic and there are many ways to find success here, but I use Kenny's approach and started my tank (still <1 year old) this way:

1. Use as much live rock as possible, even if it's just a bit of rubble - start with SOMETHING. The ratio of live rock determines how quickly you move through steps 2-5
2. Add a couple small, cheap coral - this introduces more bacteria and some ammonia consumers
3. Add a small fish to keep the ammonia cycle going/growing
4. Monitor ammonia closely (I was testing it 2-3 times per day early on)
5. Repeat 2-4

IME, tiny fish produce very little ammonia, and a couple chunks of established rubble are likely enough to nitrify it. The idea being that you slowly ramp up the nitrifying capacity of your tank by adding corals and fish slowly.

Going slow is important, but it is also important to GO. :) IMO.
 
Darkxerox said:
Honestly just cut off the plugs from your corals in established tanks then leave them in the dark in the new tank with a little bit of ghost feeding shrimp the tank every few days like Will mentioned.

None of the hitchhikers you mentioned are bad per se and asterinas are pretty easy to control if you don't want them.
Click to expand...

It started off 2 years ago as oh how cool a star fish, than two months later meh 20-30. Few months after that they were everywhere and ate all my coralline algae from my rocks, and ate some gmk and other zoas I had. Now despite how many I remove I cant get rid of them. I get their numbers down and they keep reproducing like a endless battle . I personally just don't like them and don't want to knowingly add them to another tank. They (dozens)are all over the 32 gallon current main tank, and the 10 gallon that this im15 is meant to replace. Both tanks I started about the same time 2.8 years ago.

The 10 gallon has bristle worms, asterinas, and lots of spoinards/ vermatids. But has plenty zoas/ fire work cloves, and mushrooms I could dip/ inspect before adding to the 15.

The 32 only has asterinas. It once had thousands of spoinards that made me remove the sand and go bare bottom a 1.5 yeara ago, and over100 vermatids (haven't seen a vermetid or spoinard in almost year now in the 32.)

I took my coral banded shrimp out of the 32 and put it into the 10 gallon as I've been considering harlquin shrimp to deal with asterinas.

I'm not so much worried about adding existing coral to the new tank. Or the 65 when I get it going. I just really don't wanna risk adding any rocks to the new tank from current ones knowing how hard I fought to get rid those spoinards and vermatids. I'm also not blind to the possibility of adding them in the future by new corals or frags. Just not willing to knowingly add them to the new tanks.
 
So just a update on current status. I added the rock rubble a few days ago. A day later I added 7 corals to the tank. The same day I added the rubble I added a few drops of ammonia, I got from Amazon per the bottles instructions (only added it once).

It seemed better for two days after that. Yet this photo was taken tonight things look worse now. The lights were already off from the timer, so I only turned them on breifly to get this picture hence corals are closed up. I still only have the stock filter sock in the tank

Should I add a small wave maker?
Should I be adding ammonia daily?
Should I add active carbon or chemipure ?
I also have more coral I could add if it's advisible to do so?
I also have my biocube 29 uv sterilizer, I haven't installed in the biocube32 yet that I could rig up if it would help?

Sorry alot of questions here, I don't mean to imply I'm considering taking all those options at the same time or doing anything drastic or rash.

They are just a collection of all the different things I could do if any would potentially help.

1 I didn't start running the lights until I added the coral.
2 I have 6 trochus snails in another tank I'm holding for this tank, and some hermits I don't think it wise to add them at this point.
3 I didn't not add the raw shrimp as I have bottled ammonia @Darkxerox

Any further advice is welcomed.
 

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