got ethical husbandry?

Need some advice as far as piping.

islandcreation

islandcreation

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This is the first winter my pipes will be going through. My tank is plumbed under the house to the garage and I was wondering should I insulate them? The pipes run about 22 feet too if that matters?

Don't pipes break because the water freezes in the pipe expanding the water cracking the pipe? If I'm correct, since the water is heated I shouldn't have to worry, right? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
 
I've lived in parts of the country where pipes freeze and I can assure you there is NOTHING for you to fear. It has to get A LOT colder than it does around here before you have anything to worry about. You may actually see a benefit. For me winter is a great time to have a tank. Summer we are always fighting heat, but in winter we get free cooling. You probably won't get much from two feet of pipe but maybe just a little and every little bit is good.
 
[quote author=Dyngoe link=topic=5247.msg64907#msg64907 date=1226995337]
I've lived in parts of the country where pipes freeze and I can assure you there is NOTHING for you to fear. It has to get A LOT colder than it does around here before you have anything to worry about. You may actually see a benefit. For me winter is a great time to have a tank. Summer we are always fighting heat, but in winter we get free cooling. You probably won't get much from two feet of pipe but maybe just a little and every little bit is good.
[/quote]

I apologize its 22 feet of piping ha,ha,ha sorry for the 2 feet mistake.
 
where abouts do you live? Its unlikely there are too many places in the bay area where it actually gets below freezing. If you're that worried however swing by a big box home improvement store, buy some foam pipe sleeves and put them around your pipes.
 
I would put the foam sleeves around the pipes mainly to insulate. 22ft of pipe running under the house to the garage might cool your water a lot causing your water heaters to be on much more.
 
What Alve said :)

Also Dyngoe, it does get cold enough here every year to burst pipes. It keeps my friend employed (plumber) during non construction months (winter). We get about a half dozen events every year. It's not like it's an every day occurrence, but it does routinely happen. This is why you she back flow devices covered with cloth bags, bubble wrap, foil, etc.

You do not have to worry about moving water and pipes bursting though.
 
OK, 22ft of piping is a little different than 2ft. I still think there is little concern of your pipes bursting. All do respect Gresham ;) but half a dozen burst pipes in an area with 7+ million residents is rare to say the least. Even 60,000 burst pipes is just one percent of all residents in the Bay Area let alone all the possible pipes in all of the houses here. Personally I have never had a problem heating my tanks but cooling is a different issue all together. In CO, NJ and PA where it gets WAY below freezing we only had to worry about exposed pipes that had still water. Just running your water at a slow drip would stop most from freezing. Let's do some quick math:
Let's say your pipes are 2" diameter and you are running 900GPH through them. (I'll assume your pipes are actually smaller and your volume is actually higher so this is a conservative estimate.)
That means you hold a total of 22G in each pipe which flows through at 40X per hour. Or every 1.5 minutes there is "new" water in your pipes. It would take EXTREME cold to take water at ~77 deg to 32 degrees in that short amount of time. Even with the amount of surface area exposed to the cold it would be hard to freeze that line. We don't have that here. So, I go back to my original contention: take this as free cooling. If you are worried, check the temp at the entry and exit points early in the morning (usually it is coldest around 3-4AM but not much warmer by 6). If you don't see a significant decrease then nothing to worry about.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Yes, the sump temp to the display tank is .7 degrees off. I'm going to have to suck it up and go under again with some foam sleeves.
 
[quote author=Dyngoe link=topic=5247.msg64928#msg64928 date=1227034465]
OK, 22ft of piping is a little different than 2ft. I still think there is little concern of your pipes bursting. All do respect Gresham ;) but half a dozen burst pipes in an area with 7+ million residents is rare to say the least. Even 60,000 burst pipes is just one percent of all residents in the Bay Area let alone all the possible pipes in all of the houses here. Personally I have never had a problem heating my tanks but cooling is a different issue all together. In CO, NJ and PA where it gets WAY below freezing we only had to worry about exposed pipes that had still water. Just running your water at a slow drip would stop most from freezing. Let's do some quick math:
Let's say your pipes are 2" diameter and you are running 900GPH through them. (I'll assume your pipes are actually smaller and your volume is actually higher so this is a conservative estimate.)
That means you hold a total of 22G in each pipe which flows through at 40X per hour. Or every 1.5 minutes there is "new" water in your pipes. It would take EXTREME cold to take water at ~77 deg to 32 degrees in that short amount of time. Even with the amount of surface area exposed to the cold it would be hard to freeze that line. We don't have that here. So, I go back to my original contention: take this as free cooling. If you are worried, check the temp at the entry and exit points early in the morning (usually it is coldest around 3-4AM but not much warmer by 6). If you don't see a significant decrease then nothing to worry about.
[/quote]

Did you happen to see the last part of my post?
You do not have to worry about moving water and pipes bursting though.
Click to expand...

I wasn't debating if his would burst, just the issue of pipes bursting due to freezing locally.

Freezing is a large enough issue that nearly every city and country in the area pays millions to protect their back flows and irrigation. It is an issue. It only takes one blown back flow to cause major damage. It only takes on pipe in your house to burst to cause damage ;) It doesn't matter about how many people live in the area either, it's not about statistics :lol: Why do you think people actually are in business in the area to protect pipes from such damage and why we have warnings on the new when an event is supposed to occur? It's not the same level of concern as say CO/NV/etc as it happens FAR less, but it does happen.
 
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