returning coral to DBTC

Discussion in 'DBTC - Info and Discussion' started by yardartist, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. yardartist

    yardartist Guest

    When is one released from the chain? No takers in three postings over three months? Agreement with chain starter?

    Also given so many are asking about karma now, how would one balance or plus out karma if no one is taking a coral from you? Are you stuck if you are the last person in the club to have a particular coral? It does not look like incoming members will always be accepting the corals from chains? Could they be donated to Steinhart as larger colonies, to then count and clear karma? And will Steinhart always be accepting donations?

    I am looking at the sustainable outer edge of DBTC. What have been the discussions so far?

  2. Roc

    Roc Guest

    I have had this issue as well, I guess it's part of having a club with not a ton of members and everyone with great stuff.

    I think a great thing would be to set a time limet, such as 2 months. If the corals are not claimed then they go into a thread of INTER CLUB DBTC. I'm sure there are other clubs that would love a jump start on their DBTC programs and a gift from us (with the other club paying for shipping) would be great from them.
  3. Gomer

    Gomer Honorary Member

    This is definately an issue. I've seen lots of coral offerings with no takers. It has nothing to do with "poor/ok" corals, but rather that the generosity in the club tends to saturate! I call it a good problem to have.

    One option for this situation is the IC-DBTC. While it isn't currently set up as a sustainable option, the next meeting does offer a solution (one that I'll be taking advantage off if people in club don't need/want any DBTC debt of mine :p)
  4. Roc

    Roc Guest

    So is the BOD going to set some guidlines for this? I want to know cuz I have 2 corals which I have been trying to give away for months, and it's not for lack of takers, but for lack of takers in my area. I honestly don't feel the giver should be expected to go out of their way to give a coral to another member so I normaly make a rule that pick up needs to happen at my house (not that I am not flexible, but I have limeted time), so what would the leaership seggust I do with this pink cats paw frags?
  5. seminolecpa

    seminolecpa Past President

    Expecting people to come to your house all the time probably isn't realistic. I usually try to offer it up as an option for someone who is wanting to get the frag quickly but your best bet is going to be either drop them off at a meeting or get them to someone who will be at a meeting.

    Let me add that by no means does this mean you have to do it this way, but if you want to improve your chances of giving the frags back, it is probably your best bet.
  6. Gomer

    Gomer Honorary Member

    I agree with the first of what Bryan said about pickup expectations. However, ignoring that part, the issue still exists (I was going to say problem, but I'm not sure it is an actual problem :)).

    So the question rephrased is, after trying to fulfill your DBTC return commitment through the normal DBTC channels and IC-DBTC channel, what is the obligation of the DBTC debtee?

    On a personal note, I'm trying to make room and have been sitting my hands wanting to re-do my tank but can't clear certain coral because of the unwanted DBTC corals. I have tried to pass out through the club and even through Interclub and have had no bites whatsoever. Should I feel like I have to hold on to these forever if no taker or should I be liberated from my debt after X time/attempts etc to do with as I wish on the corals?
  7. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I concur with the meeting thing, if no one is in your area you have to ask the question how did you get the coral originally? Was it at a club meeting that you went out of your way to go to? If so I think you have some obligation to return it at a meeting or at the very least hand it off to someone to take it to the meeting.

    Roc, as I seem to recall you live pretty far out in the boonies of the bay (if not I apologize I might have you mixed up with someone else) so it seems if you went out of your way to get a coral that you wanted you need to put a little effort to return corals to the area which you got them or at the very least pass it on to your other club.

    Tony, I asked Norman about something similar like that as well. One particular coral I got I offered my two frags back out, only one person bit, 3,4,5,6 months pass and I'm happy as can be letting my coral grow at which points I think hey this is my coral now to do as I please. Now these are not the original rules and what not setup by the offering party but then again it probably wasn't something that was thought out as necessary. And IMO frag swap corals or something is a good compromise if you want to out right get rid of them.
  8. JAR

    JAR Supporting Member

    If you don't comply the DBTC police come to your house, guns a blazin' :D :bigsmile:
  9. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    I think a simple PM to the original donor would make the situation a lot easier than creating more rules, the more complicated DBTC gets the easier it becomes to loose interest.

    AFA karma goes, again, it is up to the donor to create the rules. Perhaps I have a high karma not only because I've given a few frags away, it may also have to do with the fact that I keep my criteria very loose when it comes to donating frags, I've given a lot of people their first SPS corals ;) .
  10. Roc

    Roc Guest

    I usealy go and get the corals from the person giving it, unless a meeting which we were both attending was happening very soon, and I live in Richmand about 1 1/2 mins off of 80. I would harrazard to say I might actualy live closer to the BAY then most of the ppl on the boards as I am less then 1 mile from the actual water.
  11. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Ah ok, then I was confusing you with someone else :)

    Well yeah no need to go out of your way to return corals,i.e. drive all the way to San Jose or what not. You can always put the "will drop off at meeting or at my house" requirement in. The way you were talking that "no one in my area" made me think you were out in the boonies.
  12. yardartist

    yardartist Guest

    Now that so many are placing pos karma in the requirements list, less people are biting as they hope to keep their karma pos so they can get a better chance at rare corals. This is preventing corals from being spread throughout the club.

    Would people consider not applying karma rules to giving corals? As a donor, if you only want to give to pos karma people, check those that ask and only pick numbers of people who are pos, but leave it out of the posted rules to play.

    I can see why asking about karma seems to keep people thinking about giving, but the newbies do not have coral to offer without buying. Generosity cannot be forced. It has to be cultivated by example in a club setting like this. Giving only to givers is exclusionary.
  13. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Yeah the whole Karma thing is a bit sketchy... I mean who's better for giving a coral too, someone who offered up some Yellow parazoanthids, had a couple people take them with +2 Karma, or someone who's given out 10 corals, returned 10 more, but gotten 22 in return so has a -2 Karma.
  14. Gomer

    Gomer Honorary Member

    I use karma as a guide.

    I EXPECT new people to be in debt. Heck, if karma was around when I started, I would have been around -20 before contributing back to the program.

    I expect older folk to the program to either have positive karma or if negative but a history of returning second gens and starting their own chains (of course I may be bias ...but I'll be in the positive after this weekend lol).

    The problem imo with karma, isn't the value, but rather peoples interpretation of its intention and use based on misinformation. As mike pointed out, blanket statements on karma end up hurting the goal.
    IMO, a responsible DBTC donar will look far beyond a simple number, negative or positive.

    No one who believes in DBTC should feel bad about negative karma.
    No one with negative karma should let that little number hold you back from getting involved with DBTC and requesting coral.

    If you are negative, wear it as a badge of commitment to the DBTC mission.
    If you are positive, wear it as a badge of commitment to the DBTC mission.
  15. screebo

    screebo Supporting Member

    I have some GREAT news! I'll be able to offer safe haven for bits and pieces of anyone's overcrowded tanks REAL soon! Especially SPS real estate available in my 90 gal. I don't know much about rules and regulations yet, but I do have two pairs of bone cutters, and lots of tupperware AND..........I do drive, visit, snip and run.........It's gonna be fun beautifying my tank and having yet one more place to park special frags and add to the DBTC spirit. I feel my Kharma growing............Whatever method we pick, I wanna be a part of it! I've even got my first two donations to the program ready to pass out! Chompin' at the bit to be runnin' with the big dogs........
  16. seminolecpa

    seminolecpa Past President

    My personal feeling is with some of the rarer or slower growing stuff I would rather it go to someone I know has returned corals before. I have way to many chains that are dead because of lost frags or lost reefers.

    I also look at who are the respond to every post asking for corals as an indicator as to who to avoid.

    Tony is right karma is a good indicator and a good jumping off point but doesn't really account for that much.
  17. yardartist

    yardartist Guest

    Great comments. Thanks everyone for adding to the discussion! You are answering my original question, and I knew it would be a shade of gray rather than black or white.
  18. Roc

    Roc Guest

    I haven't been around a lot lately (very busy) but I am still interested as what to do with corals I cannot return. Looks like the current path is ask the orginal donner if you can be forgiving of your obligation since one one is bitting at the offer, and then what?
  19. Mr. Ugly

    Mr. Ugly Past President

    Yet another reason for Inter-Club DBTC :D

    It's like a pyramid scheme in reverse. Now you have to go find other clubs to prop your corals :D
  20. Roc

    Roc Guest

    We are having this same issue in our DBTC over at NCRC, we actualy had to beg ppl to take Red Planet 2nd gen frags............

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