Roc's 1st Big reef

Discussion in 'Tank Journals' started by Roc, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. Elite

    Elite Guest

    That's what I thought but I'm not sure if he meant 3/4" or 1 3/4" bulkhead. If it 3/4" drain and you are using 2x1" returns, you are not getting any flow out of the two outputs. I mean the flow will be so weak, it's pretty much useless.
     
  2. Roc

    Roc Guest

    Well I am limeted in my options. The other thing I could do is duel drains and a single return with a T to the outputs. Part of what I am trying to figure out is how to plumb this correctly so ALL ideas are more then welcome. The holes which are cut were cut in such a manner that i don't think I could widen the drain hole to a 1 3/4 inch bulk head (as the hole would need to basicly double in size)

    I saw tuberider's early post seggusting 2 drains, one set slightly higher then the other. I was going to try out a T top durso type drain on this tank, if I did dual drains in theroy I would need to then do t tops on both correct?

    The return pump is a Eheim 1262 which is reported to put out 900GPH at 10 feet (I will have more like 6 feet), the next question is how do I control the flow through the sump with 2 drains? My orginal drawing was backwords and the new plan would be to have everything drain, then be skimmed, output if the skimmer would go over a higher wall the the 1st one (to maximize the skimming) then flow around a rasied fuge (still trying to figure out a good method of getting flow to the fuge without overdoing it) then to the return.
     
  3. bookfish

    bookfish Guest

    I think that 2 drains would be a good option. Next time you're by the shop, I can detail a "flooded standpipe" configuration for you.-Jim
     
  4. Gomer

    Gomer Honorary Member

    Newbie thoughts having never done a plumbed tank.

    If the flow rate was dropped below cavitation, would this sytem work just as a fuge loop? ie provide some flow, but mainly to "clean" the water of N/P, stabilize PH at night, and a pod haven? Then use powerheads to make up the in tank flow difference?
     
  5. Elite

    Elite Guest

    900GPH return pump with a 3/4" drain would cause problem for you.

    http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php

    Using the following input parameters
    Gallons per Hour = 900

    Drain and Overflow sizes are calculated as
    Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 1.24 inches
    Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 14 inches
     
  6. iani

    iani Guest

    Just FYI, at 6 feet of head with that eheim pump you will get about 700gph.

    http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~SearchStr~1262~action~view~idProduct~EH1262~idCategory~FIWPSBFT~category~Eheim_1262_Pump_Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Water_Pumps_Submersible_500_1000_GPH~vendor~~tab~1.html
     
  7. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=bookfish link=topic=3622.msg41866#msg41866 date=1209400726]
    I think that 2 drains would be a good option. Next time you're by the shop, I can detail a "flooded standpipe" configuration for you.-Jim
    [/quote]

    thanks Jim. I was thinking of comeing buy today actually
     
  8. hooked

    hooked Guest

    I hate to see hinges so I went the easy route and used a very common cabinet hinge.You need to have 3/4 or better for your door stock but thats a must anyways . I have a 100g long and wanted to keep the cabinet as open as possible so instead of using joists for both horizontal decks its done w/1 1/8 " ply .
     
  9. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    [quote author=bookfish link=topic=3622.msg41866#msg41866 date=1209400726]
    I think that 2 drains would be a good option. Next time you're by the shop, I can detail a "flooded standpipe" configuration for you.-Jim
    [/quote]Ohh big words :D, is that what it's called?

    Roc, you don't need the dursos with the dual drain setup, just straight standpipes. I plumb all of my customers tanks that way especially if they are to be in a bedroom or an office and the tank must be silent. It's really nice to have the peace of mind with the backup pipe.

    Also, if you plan your flow correctly you won't have very much in the way of powerheads in the tank.
     
  10. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=tuberider link=topic=3622.msg41881#msg41881 date=1209405326]
    [quote author=bookfish link=topic=3622.msg41866#msg41866 date=1209400726]
    I think that 2 drains would be a good option. Next time you're by the shop, I can detail a "flooded standpipe" configuration for you.-Jim
    [/quote]Ohh big words :D, is that what it's called?

    Roc, you don't need the dursos with the dual drain setup, just straight standpipes. I plumb all of my customers tanks that way especially if they are to be in a bedroom or an office and the tank must be silent. It's really nice to have the peace of mind with the backup pipe.

    Also, if you plan your flow correctly you won't have very much in the way of powerheads in the tank.
    [/quote]

    Well what do you mean plan correctly, that is what I am trying to ask for advice on here.

    I like the idea of the dual drains, thanks for that. care to help me out some more :)
     
  11. Roc

    Roc Guest

    Ok after looking around some and taking into consideration some of the things being said I redid a sump/fuge design.

    What are everyones thoughts of this design

    [img width=1000 height=638]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/1Iroc/120%20Gallon%20Reef/Sumpredesign.jpg[/img]


    The other big advantage to this design is my head would be reduced to about 4 feet so I would get more flow
     
  12. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    Looks like a plan to me.

    120s are a little tricky to get good flow out of them, depending on how close you want it to the wall you could do a closed loop, to me that would be the best option. Or you could create a circular gyre using powerheads to take advantage the tanks depth.
     
  13. Elite

    Elite Guest

    Your return is way too big and the fuge is way too small. I would do drain/skimmer - Fuge - Return. There is no need to do 4 sections.
     
  14. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=Elite link=topic=3622.msg41868#msg41868 date=1209402274]
    900GPH return pump with a 3/4" drain would cause problem for you.

    http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php

    Using the following input parameters
    Gallons per Hour = 900

    Drain and Overflow sizes are calculated as
    Recommended minimum drain pipe diameter = 1.24 inches
    Recommended minimum linear overflow size = 14 inches
    [/quote]

    So if I have 2 1" drains then I should more then enough correct?

    I am limeted with this design to a 3/4 return but since that is what the Eheim 1262 comes with I would think that would be OK.

    I am thinking about getting 2 Kollia 4's to put in the display, would that be too much should I go with the 3's
     
  15. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=Elite link=topic=3622.msg41898#msg41898 date=1209416137]
    Your return is way too big and the fuge is way too small. I would do drain/skimmer - Fuge - Return. There is no need to do 4 sections.
    [/quote]

    the reasoning behind the current design (not to scale as I am a sketchup NOOBIE) is to shorting the distance for the return (this design would place it directly under the overflow box) and to find a way to get good flow through the sump but also only have moderate flow through the fuge. It seems that this design would allow for that as I could control the flow to the fuge with a ball valve and everything else would get forced to the main drain area. Basicly doing what your discribing as far as drain -> skimmer -> return
     
  16. Elite

    Elite Guest

    couple K4s are good start. You can add more later in needed.

    If you want to keep that design, you should add more baffle between the skimmer and return section. Some skimmer put out micro bubbles and one baffle most likely will not be enough to stop them from going into the return. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think there is a need to put baffles between the drain and skimmer.
     
  17. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=tuberider link=topic=3622.msg41897#msg41897 date=1209416096]
    Looks like a plan to me.

    120s are a little tricky to get good flow out of them, depending on how close you want it to the wall you could do a closed loop, to me that would be the best option. Or you could create a circular gyre using powerheads to take advantage the tanks depth.
    [/quote]

    Jim told me I should do a closed loop, but I do not know what that is really
     
  18. Roc

    Roc Guest

    [quote author=Elite link=topic=3622.msg41902#msg41902 date=1209416804]
    couple K4s are good start. You can add more later in needed.

    If you want to keep that design, you should add more baffle between the skimmer and return section. Some skimmer put out micro bubbles and one baffle most likely will not be enough to stop them from going into the return. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think there is a need to put baffles between the drain and skimmer.
    [/quote]

    I could effectively lose the baffle between the drain and skimmer and move the bubble trap to after the skimmer
     
  19. tuberider

    tuberider Guest

    [quote author=Roc link=topic=3622.msg41904#msg41904 date=1209417284]
    [quote author=tuberider link=topic=3622.msg41897#msg41897 date=1209416096]
    Looks like a plan to me.

    120s are a little tricky to get good flow out of them, depending on how close you want it to the wall you could do a closed loop, to me that would be the best option. Or you could create a circular gyre using powerheads to take advantage the tanks depth.
    [/quote]

    Jim told me I should do a closed loop, but I do not know what that is really
    [/quote]It's basically a closed system designed for circulation, since it is closed it is not pushing against head pressure making it a cost effective way to move water. The simplest form would be two holes drilled, one for intake, one for return with a pump inline. Of course you would want to have more returns, and intakes for that matter, but that depends on what you want to keep in the tank. If it is a simple mixed reef you can keep it to a couple of returns, however if you're going for a full blown reef crest type tank you may opt for more of everything.[quote author=Roc link=topic=3622.msg41905#msg41905 date=1209417451]
    [quote author=Elite link=topic=3622.msg41902#msg41902 date=1209416804]
    couple K4s are good start. You can add more later in needed.

    If you want to keep that design, you should add more baffle between the skimmer and return section. Some skimmer put out micro bubbles and one baffle most likely will not be enough to stop them from going into the return. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think there is a need to put baffles between the drain and skimmer.
    [/quote]

    I could effectively lose the baffle between the drain and skimmer and move the bubble trap to after the skimmer
    [/quote]Yep, just flip it around and you're golden
     
  20. Roc

    Roc Guest

    Ok good I'm gald the basic design will work for the sump (with mods discussed) I talked with Jim today and learned how to do the "flooded drainpipe" So I got all the info need there. Jim pointed out that since the taller pipe will not be getting anything but 2-4% of the drain water that can go directly to the fuge and I don't need the split that pipe. Also both drains will get ball valves so I can tweek the flow.

    We also discussed and all of you are right the return will be using 1 of the 1" bulkhead spaces, and the taller drain which is pushing less water will use the 3/4 " plumbing
     

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