Size of CUC for a 210....

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by goldielocke76, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. goldielocke76

    goldielocke76 Supporting Member

    Hey all, Just trying to get some input on what size of a CUC I should be looking to get for the 210. Need to know suggested numbers for:

    Hermits:
    Nassarius:
    Black Footed Trochus snails:
    Astrea snails:
    Cerith snails:
    Crabs (ie emerald or another type that I may not be aware of):
    Serpent stars:

    **I do plan on having a pair of Scarlet skunk cleaner shrimp, and a pair of Scarlet cleaner shrimp, and whatever peppermint shrimp I have in the 90. I also have 2 fighting conchs, and plan on getting a hawking conch (planning, not set in stone) Please point anything out that I may have missed. If you suggest that I only have 1 type of snail, feel free to put a 0 next to the other types. Just because they are up there doesn't mean I plan on having them all, I just wanted to have an all encompassing list. ;) Just trying to get an idea of what I am going to need. Any input, suggestions, criticism, etc is much appreciated! Thank you :D
     
  2. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    I have a similar 240G tank. Opinion: Probably start with 25 Trochus, 15 big Nassarius, 20 Hermits, and extra shells for hermits. Skip Astrea because in a big tank, you will not notice when they accidentally get tipped over, so they die. Skip Cerith, because the do to little in a big tank to be useful. Beware that brittle stars get huge. The big Turbos are good, but bulldoze. Conchs need a lot of sand.
     
  3. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    GRRRR... wtf is with this forum reediting what I wrote.
     
  4. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Hermits, zero. They do not belong in any clean up crew. Instead don't over feed your tank. If you have hermits they WILL kill your snail populations.
    Nassarius, are you having sand in the tank? If not, they're not necessary, if you do, I might start with 10 just to have something to sift the sand around.
    Trochus, maybe 10 Astraea, none, no sense in having a bunch of rotten dead snails in your tank when they inevitably topple over and can't right themselves
    Ceriths, get some if you want to see long spiraled snails in your tank, no real other reason.
    crabs, none, zero, zip nada... they are not cleanup crews, they're opportunistic predators, just because they'll eat bubble algae occasionally, or you see them tugging at hair algae doesn't mean they will keep it under control. quite the contrary it means you have larger problems that should be addressed.
    serpent stars: none. They're not cleanup animals, they're "i'm too lazy to reduce the feeding in my tank" animals
    ditto with shrimp and everything else.
    As you can tell I'm very anti-clean up crew. Getting the animals because you want to see a variety of types of animals in your tank is the reason you should get them, not because you'll think they're magically keep your tank clean of nasty stuff. The best animal in a CUC is you. They will NOT keep the glass clean, yeah they'll eat stuff but most of it will still be left on the glass. I have yet to see a snail that will handle some of the truly nasty nuisance algae we have in our tank. And when it comes down to it, most people start off with CUC but they have a young tank that doesn't have enough food for them, so many die and end up becoming part of the clean up problem.
    < /soapbox>
    is it just me or did this board go full stupid with the need for HTML to leave spaces between paragraphs in posts?
     
  5. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    You never go full retard
     
  6. tr1gger

    tr1gger Keyboard Cowboy

    You just made me re-think everything I know about CUC's that's for sure!
    And yeah, the forums are a whole bunch of broken right now :/
     
  7. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    As long as it's recognized as broken is the first step. :)
     
  8. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Agree that not overfeeding would be ideal. But that is not always so easy. Bullies get the food first, and less food makes for more bullies, which ends up being a downward spiral for the timid fish. Large herbivores also tend to be pigs, and some carry knives. Plus, there are the "reef safe with caution" type fish, that when underfed a bit will start to eat your corals. So a larger CUC is an alternative. But certainly not an excuse to WAY overfeed!
     
  9. goldielocke76

    goldielocke76 Supporting Member

    Ok, let me address a few things first...

    1. I have anthias, so I will be using an autofeeder, probably two so there will not be a small concentration of food in one area to make the fish compete. Other than that, they get supplemental feeding of frozen food, and because of the tangs, they have a constant supply of seaweed. Between my tangs, my sand sifter and the hermits that I have, all the pellets get cleaned up in time for the next feeding. A few that do not sink do go into the fuge, where it feeds my fuge monster.

    2. I've always called them CUC, however, I do not rely on said animals to do the work that I should do. I keep my rocks blown off of detritus, I'll stir up my sand bed every once in a while and my between my kole tang's kisses and my hammerhead mag float, my class is for the most part, clean. But the more variety I put in the tank, is more interesting and fun for kids like my niece, who loves watching the hermit crabs, the little nassarius snorkels in the sand, the emerald crabs on the rocks, and the snails on the glass. Which leads me into my next question perfectly.

    I now have 14 astrea snails... I've had all of these since they were itty bitty snails, who are now the size of a 50 cent piece. I've never once flipped any of them over, but have knocked them off the glass with the mag float more times than I care to count, and watched them many a times right them selves, then get right back on to the glass. I'm not sure why they have such a bad rap, but I've never had an issue with them. I added extra snail shells in the tank for the hermits so they wouldn't pick on the snails, and left it at that. But now that I know about the black foot trochus, I'm interested in adding more of those since they seem to be more active during the day, whereas the astreas are more active during the night.

    And I do plan on having a 2 inch sand bed, because I have fish like a sand sifter, and the melanurus wrasse, and a seeing eye goby with his pistol shrimp, and all three mentioned needs a sand bed. I keep nassarius on hand to keep from the sand from sitting and building up in nitrates in between the times that I stir up the sand bed.

    And Baja hermits DO eat and maintain populations of hair algae, I've seen it in the frag tank at Aqua Exotic. Matt F. had a huge hair algae problem in his two tanks, and handfuls of the Baja hermit crabs later, it was gone. After it was gone, he added a yellow eye kole, and between the hermits and the kole, he hasn't had an issue since. He's now working on his other tank, giving it the same treatment. I haven't been there in a while, but I'll be sure to check it out but I'll make sure to post it on here next time we go there. I need more Ocean Nutrition, so I'll probably be going tomorrow.

    So that being said, if there is any other advice you can think of to give, please feel free to give it. I do have an idea of what I want, but I am still unsure of the numbers.

    And once again, let me politely remind all of you, especially you Dan, that the problem of the forum has been noted and will be dealt with accordingly. I asked for help with a CUC, and I don't feel like I should have to read through complaining posts about the formatting of the forum when it's easy to use < p > or < p/ > at the beginning and end of each paragraph if you want breaks in what you say. Hopefully the ones that I used show up, if not, either way, where as it may bug me, I'm not going to harp on Denzil to fix it because he's busy, and the company is getting ready to go into their busy season. So, I understand it sucks, but please Dan, keep your snarky comments to yourself, or post them on your own threads. Thanks.
     
  10. goldielocke76

    goldielocke76 Supporting Member

    And if any one cares, here is the expression that allows you to have breaks in your paragraph: < p > < b r / > < / p > without the spaces of course. I did that just so they'd show up.
     
  11. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I can't/won't give you a number, because there is no number. People who sell CUC animals give you numbers based on gallons, but that's because they're trying to sell you animals and make money, they couldn't give less of a shit if half of your snails die. The number you "need" well it depends upon how dirty your tank gets. If your existing CUC works on your tank, then simply scale that up based upon how much more you feed.

    As to the forum issues, my "bitching" came about because this is the first time I noticed the HTML requirements, not because I was expecting you to relay a message to Denzil.
     
  12. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    double post
     
  13. goldielocke76

    goldielocke76 Supporting Member

    That's interesting, but great insight. Never thought about it that way, although knowing LFS's I guess I should have. Definitely gave me food for thought, thanks :)
     
  14. goldielocke76

    goldielocke76 Supporting Member

    What's "lots of sand?" I planned on having a 2 inch sand bed with some rubble. I know it's going to get moved around a bit, so it will be deeper in some areas and shallower than others.. was hoping that was enough in the 210 since it **seems** to be ok in the 90. Hope it'll be ok in the 210...
     
  15. FeliciaLynn

    FeliciaLynn Supporting Member

    Brandie, I wanted to let you know that if you plan to order a couple starfish from KP Aquatics, the nano red brittles are the ones that will eventually get huge. I have 2 of those that are 14" when you measure from the tip of one leg to the tip of the opposite leg (when they're all stretched out). Those two are crammed in my main tank and seem perfectly content in there and have never caused a problem. However, if you want smaller starfish that actually stay small, I also have 3 of KPA's nano serpent stars. Those guys are little and are still about the same size as when I got them. They're great at cleaning up excess food particles and are tons of fun to watch scamper across the sandbed after food. Plus they're only $4.50 each and can be shipped priority mail for $15. Mine were shipped that way and arrived very healthy.
     
    goldielocke76 likes this.
  16. FeliciaLynn

    FeliciaLynn Supporting Member

    Oh also, I wish I had bought live sand. I rinsed the heck out of the dry sand last night and yet I have a giant mess on my hands right now. I'm so frustrated that I'm considering draining the whole tank, throwing the sand out, and starting over with live sand. Seriously, the water has been milk colored since yesterday evening and everything is coated in very fine white dust. If I do anything in the tank, it all just gets kicked up again and the water goes completely opaque. Ugh!
     
  17. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Try Tropic Eden sand from Premium Aquatics...no rinsing required. :)
     
  18. gimmito

    gimmito Supporting Member

    Brandie.....it sounds like you have a good idea what you want. I wouldn't buy more than 20 of each for most of the inverts you listed. I agree with Mike that you are the most effective CUC. :)
     
  19. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Do you have any large filter socks? If so, put one in the middle of your main tank, with a bit of wire, with a big power-head pointed directly into the mouth. Then deliberately stir up the sand. Acts a bit like a vacuum cleaner.
     
  20. FeliciaLynn

    FeliciaLynn Supporting Member

    I went out and bought a filter sock and drained the water through it while stirring the sand up with a powerhead. The water came through the filter sock still looking like milk. I took all of the sand out of the tank, drained all the water and wiped it free of dust. I am no refilling the tank with fresh mixed saltwater and will be going out tomorrow morning to buy live sand. That is the last time I use dry sand. After 2 days, my water still looked like milk. I couldn't even see the outline of my rocks in that mess.
     

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