Time to Update the SPS/LPS Coral List - What qualifies?

Discussion in 'Events & Announcements' started by Wlachnit, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Wlachnit

    Wlachnit BOD

    Let's update this list while fresh from the last swap. I would like to hear from people whether some of these should be taken off the list because they are no longer scarce within the club. Does this list look right as we go into 2019? All members have a voice here.

    BONUS CORALS

    LPS Corals
    1 inch - Cherry Blossom Cyphastrea
    3 head - Bi-color Hammer
    2 head - Bi-color Frogspawn
    2 head - Bi-color Torch
    1 head - Indo Gold Torch
    1 head - Branching Gold Hammer
    1 head - Orange Crush Acan
    1 head - Rainbow Acan
    1 inch - Jack O Lantern Leptoseris
    1 eye - JF My Miami Chalice
    1 eye - Pink Boobies Chalice
    3 eyes - Mummy Eye Chalice
    1 eye - Avatar Chalice
    1" - Pink chalice
    1" - Rainbow stylo
    1" - Rainbow sherbert chalice

    SPS Corals
    1 inch - $500 Efflo
    1 inch - 20K Lokani
    1 inch - 30K Lokani
    1 inch - ATL Shades of Fall
    1 inch - Aqua Delight
    1 inch - BC Spainbow
    1 inch - Cali Tort
    1 inch - Cali Reef Co. Purple Cadillac
    2 inch - Copps Calacali
    1 inch - Joe’s Rainbow
    2 inch - Miyagi Tort
    1 inch - Cornbred Purple Planet
    1 inch - Reef Raft Aussie Gold
    1 inch - Mr Ugly’s Red Prostrata
    1 inch - ORA Blue Voodoo
    1 inch - ORA Borealis
    1 inch - ORA German Blue
    1 inch - ORA Hawkins
    1 inch - ORA Joe the Coral
    1 inch - ORA Pearlberry
    1 inch - ORA Purple Plasma
    1 inch - ORA Red Planet
    1 inch - ORA Roscoe’s Blue
    1 inch - PC Rainbow
    1 inch - Pink Lemonade
    1 inch - Red Dragon (do not bring fake red dragon acro)
    1 inch - R66 Bloodshot Acropora
    1 inch - Palmer’s Blue Millepora
    1 inch - Apple Berry Montipora
    1 inch - Bubblegum Digitata
    2 inch - Mystic Sunset Monti
    2 inch - Season’s Greeting Monti
    2 inch - Starburst Monti
    2 inch - Sunset Monti
    1 inch - Sunset Millepora
    2 inch - Pokerstar Monti
    1 inch - Rainbow Monti

    Ultra Corals

    LPS Corals
    1 head - Australian Gold Torch
    1 inch - Space Invader Pectinia
    1 head - Tyree Elegance
    1 inch - AOA Molten Lava Leptoseris
    1 eye - CB Flaming Bugatti Chalice
    2 eye - Bazooka Joe Chalice
    2 eye - Pink Boobie Chalice

    SPS Corals
    1 inch - BC Aquatic-man Table
    1 inch - BC Bubblebath Unicorn
    1 Inch - Cali Reef Co. Crystal Flame
    1 inch - Diabolic Pacman
    1 inch - Ice Fire Echinata
    1 inch - Oregon Tort
    1 inch - Purple Monster
    1 inch - Reef Raft The Vinh
    1 inch - RR Orange Passion
    1 inch - RR Wolverine
    1 inch - RR Pink Floyd
    1 inch - Tierra Del Fuego
    1 inch - TCK Pikachu
    1 inch - Walt Disney
    1 inch - Wet Thumbs Mother of Pearl
    1 inch - Copps 24K Millepora
    1 inch - WWC Somewhere Over The Rainbow Millepora
     
  2. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I see a lot of corals that don't seem that "rare" here, at least from back when I had most of them. I'm not sure if it's like Mr Ugly's Red Prostrada they simply aren't around much anymore. Just to throw out some that pop out to me, Cali tort, ORA everything, Appleberry, Season's greeting, Sunset, Pokerstar, Rainbow monti but again I don't know if they are ones that are not around much anymore which is why they are available.

    Although the more I think of it, my mindset is maybe putting restrictions on how many bonus tickets one can get would be a better course of action. Like perhaps have "nice" ones where you can get a bonus ticket with 3 of them, have "really nice" where you can get up to 2 bonus tickets both requiring 3 each, then ultra which which has no maximum. Mind you I'm just throwing out ideas more so than stomping my foot and say "this is how it should be done"
     
  3. Wlachnit

    Wlachnit BOD

    I think anything is up for discussion and we should feel free to put everything on the table...so to speak. It sounds like you are suggesting two categories of "Bonus"? I also think that not all bonus corals are the same given our list today. Some of these Montis grow pretty fast. In fact, I should have paid more attention to the list myself as I could have fragged some sunset, mystic, and rainbow montis.
     
  4. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Well it has been a really long time since I've had a full on SPS tank, which is why I did mention that in my post that I really don't know much of what's available out there. I mean except for Mr Ugly's Red Prostrata I'm sure you can get just about any coral on that list from somewhere... even if it's a fake (no fake Red Dragon!! :D)

    The idea behind multiple "bonus" categories comes more from the perception that it gives other people at swaps, while yeah I totally understand the need to "bribe" others to bring good corals (really sad if you ask me, but I get it, and maybe it's more of a regional swap problem than a club only one), you can almost see it on the faces of others when people have 5+ corals from the swap... before anyone actually gets to pick, and on top of that they also get to pick with everyone else, and then doubly so when everyone else only gets 4 corals through the regular side of the swap. Now again I get it, that person with 5 bonus corals meant he brought anywhere between 5 and 15 corals of a "higher than average quality" but again for those who don't have bonus corals and for an event they PAID MONEY to participate in it may not feel to good especially if they have a later picking letter.

    Back to the original point, limiting the amount of bonus you get my help the perception of people who already have nice stuff getting lots of premium picks at nice stuff, so perhaps limit the number of premium picks (aka bonus tickets). Again I get both sides of this argument, and ironically you might see those who bring "premium corals" start to become the "well I'll bring the minimum" type of people if they can only get 1 bonus ticket max. But I digress, I've been in the club since the beginning and I've seen just about every variation of swap occur from no bonus, to bonuses, to bonuses for just bringing a LOT of frags, back to no bonuses because our club is just awesome, to again needing bonuses, so I've seen just about everything, I've also seen both sides of the "I'm gonna get as much as possible" side of things, often involving children who "have tanks" but oh yeah "mom or dad need to help with the picking" which may or may not be true but it can look a little fishy.
     
  5. Ibn

    Ibn Guest

    My notes added below.

     
  6. tankguy

    tankguy Supporting Member

    Im one for a bonus table separate from the common or average coral table. Just a thought
     
  7. Newjack

    Newjack Supporting Member

    A little off subject, but since we’re talking about “bonus corals” I would think it would be nice to have a separate table just for ALL the bonus corals. This way, let’s say you have “X”amount of bonus tickets, you can go straight to the bonus table to check out first. Then after the bonus rounds are done. It would be very easy for others entering the picking rounds to know if there are any bonus corals left. Personally, I do not have the bonus coral list memorized and the last few times I brought bonus corals , and was able to enter the early rounds to pick. I just ended up picking “regular” nothing special corals. I’m not a coral expert, so scanning through all the tables for a bonus coral was like finding a needle in a haystack. I’m not speaking for others but, I know If i bring in one of my favorite “bonus corals” I would like to come home with another nice bonus corals.
     
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  8. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member


    I'm a bit skittish about this concept, as it really starts to make people grab corals just for popularity and less about that being a coral they can care for or one that they want, and not to say people who bring bonus don't have some right to bonus but to take it a step further what happens with everyone else? They all make a bee line to the bonus table and pick up one of them just because it's considered "bonus" ? Without regard for if they can care for it properly or even what the coral is? Then it really makes that letter distribution when signing in that much more important, group A and maybe group B will get some "first class" corals, everyone else will be relegated to the "coach" section of the swap. And that's not to say that "regular nothing special corals" are bad though.

    I mean I get it, there is a lot to take in at these swaps, lots of corals on the table, lots of labels to be read, too many to physically look at individually, but IMO that's half the "fun" of these things, and in fact something that makes the picking a bit more fair regardless of when you are picking.

    Now that said an alternative to putting them on a table is maybe put a red sticker (or something) on them so at least everything is all together (imagine if you only wanted acropora that were "special" but they were mixed in with all the zoas and chalices and montis ... and rare Birdsnest morphs!) you still have to sift through them to find that special one. This solution is somewhat of a compromise to keep things organized from a layout stand point, but still has the big problem of people just grab a coral with a red sticker on it and leave. Two other, IMO, better options would be to require people to pre-register for bonus tickets and to have that list publicly viewable, then if you wanted you could look through it, and possibly print out the list to bring. Lastly, something which has gone towards the wayside, is actually allowing a preview time period, I know there's a lot of resistance to that, but perhaps allow people with a bonus ticket to preview everything since they'd be in there first anyways, and at least they can get a feel for what's on the tables, possibly pull out their phone and see if something looks nice (or is a bonus coral)... and more importantly to my stickler nature... it gives a benefit to people who show up early and not minutes before the swap.

    And with full disclosure, I am absolute guilty of picking corals by certain club members because I know they typically have nicer stuff. But I do look at the corals to see if it's something I want, I don't just pick it sight unseen. While I get the desire to come home with something nice when you bring something nice, the thought about how to go about it needs to be tread carefully.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  9. Newjack

    Newjack Supporting Member

    @sfsuphysics all good points! Trying something may be better than trying nothing.
     
  10. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Trying something could be better than nothing. I don't recall there ever being a swap where rare/bonus/whatever corals did have some level of segregation, maybe there was thinking to the matter that it wasn't a good idea, maybe people just didn't want to do it. Could always try it at least once to see if it is a good thing or a bad thing. That said the analytical side of me would like to observe this happening and not just let it happen to see how well this works out.
     
  11. Ibn

    Ibn Guest

    Interesting since I do remember one swap where this did happen when the ultras were separated from the others and the ultra round only included those who brought ultra corals along. This was the reason why the ultra category was created.
     
  12. RandyC

    RandyC Supporting Member

    As far as I understand, the whole point of having a bonus round isn't just for the bonus-bringing reefers to score bonus corals. It is an added benefit, but not the main reason. The main reason I thought the bonus coral existed was to encourage people to bring "better/rare/expensive" (BRE) coral where they might not normally so that the swap isn't consisting of mostly common corals. It will also enable everyone a chance to get BRE coral. That's why the whole bring 3 bonus, get to take 1 bonus home exists. So after the bonus round(s) is over, there should be quite a few leftover BRE coral. Ultra corals are an exception and I think that ultra corals should be a fairly exclusive list.

    So, if we all agree that this is a good thing that people bring BRE coral, then it should be a behavior that is rewarded. I think that bonus/ultra coral should be separated by the same categories as the regular coral SPS/LPS/Softies for the bonus rounds. You want people to bring BRE corals? Guarantee that for every three they bring, they'll be getting to take a one nice coral home. After the bonus round, take a few minutes and then consolidate regular and bonus coral so not everyone makes a mad dash for the bonus/ultra table because it doesn't exist anymore. It may take a few extra minutes to do, but I think it is well worth it. And as long as you organize the corals by the same categories, consolidating them shouldn't be very time consuming.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
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  13. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Hmmm, maybe I missed that swap, guess it didn't pan out? If it worked like our ultra currently where 1 ultra = 1 ticket, I can easily see that table being mostly empty by the time the swap started which seems to not do what the whole "bonus" concept is made for, which is to diversify higher end corals into the club(s). Something which bringing 3 bonus corals does do because only 1 comes home for ever 3 that are brought.

    edit: basically what Randy said... just didn't read it :D
     
  14. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    To follow up on Randy's idea, and using how the swap worked this time, maybe make the bonus round before the raffle, that way people behind the scenes can move all the corals back to their respective tables while something else is going on and perhaps doing a little "casino shuffle" to make sure all the bonus corals aren't in one location in say SPS. That way there's no big "time gap" where nothing is going on while people who are in group A are chomping away at the bit wanting the swap to start already.
     
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  15. Ibn

    Ibn Guest

    Nope, it did indeed work out well. All the ultras went to a specific table and then ultras went through it first as in this last swap. I'm not sure why we didn't redo it since then because that was the purpose to have the ultra category to begin with. That swap had a ton of ultras left and the first few rounds were able to get in on the ultra corals.
     
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  16. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I guess it largely would depend upon the people who bring said ultras and their mindset. Sometimes you have members who see it as a coral they fragged because it needed to as a result they bring as many as possible to clear out a frag rack, versus people who see corals as a financial resource so bring just enough that they think they need to get enough over stuff of equal value.

    I'm not saying this to rag on people who bring ultra corals, but if we take a situation of an all ultra bonus scenario, so 1 ultra = 1 ticket, and each of those people only want ultra corals AND they use all their tickets then there would be no ultra corals left for the rest of the crowd, which would kind of just make two separate swaps one for the haves and one for the have-nots. Since at this swap everyone used all their bonus tickets, didn't see anyone with a few tickets who just came out with a single coral, it would all come down to whether or not the people involved only pick those ultra corals, as mentioned earlier someone brings an "bonus" coral they want to leave with a "bonus" coral how many other people will have that same mentality and use all their tickets to accomplish it. Granted 3 corals for 1 ticket does mitigate this scenario greatly, but if it was only 1 coral = 1 ticket I feel like it wouldn't be the same, especially for the regional swap by comparison of swaps of yester-year.

    Like I said, different reefers, different sets mentalities of what they want out of a swap.
     
  17. Kremis

    Kremis Guest

    Yeah if im bringing 3 bonus I typically would like to bring home 1 bonus
     
  18. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    And there's nothing wrong with that at all, if it was implied that there is based on my statement I apologize that was not the intent.

    My biggest concern about a bonus table is that everyone will go towards that table primarily, "I'm new to the hobby and just got a tank setup, I'd like a Walt Disney frag" is the kind of thing I'd worry about (as an extreme example). That said Randy's suggestion is more than sufficient of mitigating that worry. And the 3 corals for 1 ticket formula allows for corals to go among the general public without issues as well.
     
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  19. Kremis

    Kremis Guest

    Yeah thats understandable, I also think we should go with randys method in the future
     
  20. Flagg37

    Flagg37 Supporting Member

    These threads have become much more about the swap itself instead of the list. In the past when I had influence over aspects of the swap I tried to keep things as simple and fair as possible. At times there were suggestions that increased the fairness but also increased its complexity. There were also suggestions that would solve one aspect of fairness but introduced other problems of fairness. It’s a huge balancing act.

    That being said, I like @RandyC’s idea of starting with a bonus table that would then be redistributed after the bonus rounds. It solves the problem of the people bringing a bonus coral not leaving with one, while not giving the first few rounds of the normal picking rounds an advantage. Past ideas of having the bonus corals marked, labeled, or separated always had this problem.

    In regards to which corals should be bonus or ultra, I actually like having a select few people who discuss and make the list. I don’t feel I need to have a say in it. Even when I headed up the list I was more of just the front guy. I tried to keep things as organized and succinct as possible.

    We discussed the original list and made changes based on our thoughts of current value. Valuation was loosely based on bonus corals being in the $30-$50 range, and ultras being $90+. Again, this was a fairly loose guide. We also discussed comparable value between the other corals on the list.

    I think the some of the minimum requirements for the bonus list has gotten a little far. I don’t think we need the 4 and 5 polyp requirement for some of the zoas. Part of the idea behind having it so high was to allow an entry point for some people that might not have some of the high dollar/polyp corals but have had them long enough and propagated them successfully.
     
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