LordHelmet
Supporting Member
thank you Gresh.
U.S. Considers Endangered Species Protection for 82 Stony Coral Species - a call to action!!!
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GreshamH
Guest
more reading:
This one starts to pick it a part: http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=4431
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Corals_as_endangered_species
This one starts to pick it a part: http://www.climateshifts.org/?p=4431
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Corals_as_endangered_species
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
The funny thing about this is you can argue that the MO industry puts a huge dent in corals and you can argue these huge bleaching problems might make corals go extinct, but you can not say the MO industry is making the corals bleach.
That's really like saying, "We need to stop using fireplaces to help air quality because millions of cars are spouting pollution by idling in traffic every day"... oh wait.. shoot.
That's really like saying, "We need to stop using fireplaces to help air quality because millions of cars are spouting pollution by idling in traffic every day"... oh wait.. shoot.
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GreshamH
Guest
Sfork said:
The list is the base for the new law
They want to do this with leopard sharks as well so the enforcement can be global.
tuberider
Guest
Ya know, that's what CITES is for, yet the US in all of its dogoodery wants to set an example for the rest of the world (typical) by punishing its citizens, both with HR669 and now this bill, things would be much easier if the US worked with other countries and science, not politics. The punishment comes in the form of political ignorance and not addressing the actual problem.
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GreshamH
Guest
darn straight! FWIW it's abuse of the ESA.
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GreshamH
Guest
But they got the gavel so we have to listen
fishez4alivin
Guest
Unless there is a band of all interested parties...LFS, importers, divers, hobbyists etc....where everyone fights for one solution for all, and not just their own, this hobby is going to be in big trouble. Sure there are issues such as global warming, but to go after the causes of those problems is insurmountable. They like to win their battles, and trust me each one they chose is strategically picked. They like to go into little known hearings and bring their data, and suggest ways of dealing with the problem. I guarantee they have been working on this for awhile. And because a bill has been written, people found out about it. They want to get a big jump on these issues, so that the opposition has little time to prepare to fight. As Gresh said, the fishermen have have a larger fund, collected locally as well as nationally. But our fund, isn't close to the ones that the NRDC has....
IME that the first course of action is to get representatives of all parties effected by this ban. Hobbyists, LFS, wholesalers, divers, etc....They then need to come up with a plan where they have to show concern for the resource. Basically that will mean a possible closure for a year, possibly odd year heavily regulated harvesting. When large environmental groups get involved, you can kiss what you knew or loved as being the past. Because they make changes happen.
About the ESA and especially Magnuson Stevens Act, out off all species that the feds have tried to save, with Magnuson Stevens, not one has recovered. When it comes to harvesting the ocean, this is what Magnuson Stevens does...If there is a species that becomes seriously threatened by whatever reason, the first to have to stop all take, are the fishermen/collectors. This is even if a big chemical company dumped waste in the water, and wiped out a local species of crustacean. The act punishes the weakest of all involved...no matter what the cause of a declining species.
That is why these groups are getting involved in getting laws written. Because they also are aware of our governments inability to make changes that would financially effect the very groups and businesses that give them millions of dollars for campaigning or summer beach houses etc...It's tough to be a leader when you sleep with so many, and owe so many favors
This could forever change what we think this hobby is about.
IME that the first course of action is to get representatives of all parties effected by this ban. Hobbyists, LFS, wholesalers, divers, etc....They then need to come up with a plan where they have to show concern for the resource. Basically that will mean a possible closure for a year, possibly odd year heavily regulated harvesting. When large environmental groups get involved, you can kiss what you knew or loved as being the past. Because they make changes happen.
About the ESA and especially Magnuson Stevens Act, out off all species that the feds have tried to save, with Magnuson Stevens, not one has recovered. When it comes to harvesting the ocean, this is what Magnuson Stevens does...If there is a species that becomes seriously threatened by whatever reason, the first to have to stop all take, are the fishermen/collectors. This is even if a big chemical company dumped waste in the water, and wiped out a local species of crustacean. The act punishes the weakest of all involved...no matter what the cause of a declining species.
That is why these groups are getting involved in getting laws written. Because they also are aware of our governments inability to make changes that would financially effect the very groups and businesses that give them millions of dollars for campaigning or summer beach houses etc...It's tough to be a leader when you sleep with so many, and owe so many favors
This could forever change what we think this hobby is about.
Reef Keeper
Guest
I guess it's back to gold fish and drunken pirate skeleton air pump decorations.
I thought what we're doing as a club/s is more responsible than what other industries are doing to our waterways and oceans.
The long and short is, I believe there needs to be some controls in place, but this legislation seems needlessly punitive from what I can piece together.
Maybe we can / should circulate our Mission Statement to key law makers to let them know there are thousands of responsible hobbyists, biologists and merchants who can help draft and implement/address reasonable controls to help preserve our underwater inhabitants from further environmental degradation and unlawful collecting.
I may be wrong about this, but aren't these the same folks at NOAA that stated it's okay for the Navy to use sonar for national security purposes which can cause whales to have internal bleeding when exposed to such activities?
Just found this ---- http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090123_sonartraining.html
Thank you for the heads-up and call to action. You can count on me to click on the link
(Electronic Submissions: Submit all electronic public comments via the Federal eRulemaking Portal) : http://www.regulations.gov. to voice some realistic approaches, but NOAA and the rest of political machine don't have very high IQs from what I've read. I think it's been documented the average congress person / politician has an average IQ of 100 (average intelligence). http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-08/iq-range-occupations.jpg Notice "Natural Science" is off the chart.
As matters stand now, I can't see these rules being fully implement in its current form. I think these folks have there priorities all screwed up from what I can discern.
When it comes to the bottom line, commerce usually trumps politics and even common sense. What has me concerned is that the EPA, like NOAA, tend to get their way. So, as a collective group, we need to make show the powers that be, that our hobby is sustainable and in many ways can be a valuable adjunct to mankind and to its underwater treasures / resources. Clubs like ours provide a model for how we can strike a balance with nature and can set a leading example to the captains of industry that have, for years, decimated our waters without the kind of regard that holds us in God's Good Grace. Good alliteration and place to leave off.
I thought what we're doing as a club/s is more responsible than what other industries are doing to our waterways and oceans.
The long and short is, I believe there needs to be some controls in place, but this legislation seems needlessly punitive from what I can piece together.
Maybe we can / should circulate our Mission Statement to key law makers to let them know there are thousands of responsible hobbyists, biologists and merchants who can help draft and implement/address reasonable controls to help preserve our underwater inhabitants from further environmental degradation and unlawful collecting.
I may be wrong about this, but aren't these the same folks at NOAA that stated it's okay for the Navy to use sonar for national security purposes which can cause whales to have internal bleeding when exposed to such activities?
Just found this ---- http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090123_sonartraining.html
Thank you for the heads-up and call to action. You can count on me to click on the link
(Electronic Submissions: Submit all electronic public comments via the Federal eRulemaking Portal) : http://www.regulations.gov. to voice some realistic approaches, but NOAA and the rest of political machine don't have very high IQs from what I've read. I think it's been documented the average congress person / politician has an average IQ of 100 (average intelligence). http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2007-08/iq-range-occupations.jpg Notice "Natural Science" is off the chart.
As matters stand now, I can't see these rules being fully implement in its current form. I think these folks have there priorities all screwed up from what I can discern.
When it comes to the bottom line, commerce usually trumps politics and even common sense. What has me concerned is that the EPA, like NOAA, tend to get their way. So, as a collective group, we need to make show the powers that be, that our hobby is sustainable and in many ways can be a valuable adjunct to mankind and to its underwater treasures / resources. Clubs like ours provide a model for how we can strike a balance with nature and can set a leading example to the captains of industry that have, for years, decimated our waters without the kind of regard that holds us in God's Good Grace. Good alliteration and place to leave off.