i got them from someone else who has had them for god knows how long. and when you have over 30 fish that are all about 4 to 5 inches in a 240 gallon reef, it gets really crowded. they fight with my 8 inch vlamingi and 5 inch desjardini. i don't want any serious fights. i have removed well over 10 fish in the past because of their behavior problems(eating coral, fighting, and size etc.)this is just another one of those things. you have to see my tank to see what I am talking about. i will post a video of the tank tomorrow.